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Wehrmacht has to many "get out of jail free" abilities

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12 Jun 2015, 23:23 PM
#121
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1134 | Subs: 1



But... there's no Tiger in CAS...


I believe he is talking about Stuka CAS, the loitering ability in lightning war. Not only does it one shot medium armor and track targets, but it comes with a tiger!

Cas doctrine is fine imo, besides the ability to instantly convert fuel -> muni at 100% efficiency. Its the b loitering stupa CAS strafe that is hopelessly broken.

In terms of get out jail free cards, blitz is the only one I find stupid. Blitz should be an offensive ability, not a defensive one.
13 Jun 2015, 18:55 PM
#122
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 588



But... there's no Tiger in CAS...


stuka close air support
15 Jun 2015, 08:50 AM
#123
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 856



In terms of get out jail free cards, blitz is the only one I find stupid. Blitz should be an offensive ability, not a defensive one.


Reverse blitz can be good ability for french tanks. :D (i have french car :D )
15 Jun 2015, 09:11 AM
#124
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 2

About CAS doctrine - just replace conversion from instant to Windustry-like passive and it'll be fine.
15 Jun 2015, 09:23 AM
#125
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

Sherman smoke takes time to use, not to mention about your tank stops when uses it. Meanwhile germans have i escape button that allows in one second pop smoke and 100% escape. it's fine for scout cars and halftrucks but not fine for panter that moves faster than T34.
Suggestion: make this ability 5 seconds to activate and tank should stop when uses this ability to increase micro requirements.
15 Jun 2015, 10:28 AM
#126
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jun 2015, 01:42 AMAlec
It is very annoying when that tiger/panther that is down to a sliver of health gets away because it can just smoke and blitzkrieg out of there. Blitzkrieg was nerfed, but it still allows a tiger to move just as fast as a scout car. A tiger ace is very hard to kill alone, but giving it the ability to just smoke and blitzkrieg out of any dangerous situation doesn't seem right. The only ally tank that has smoke is the shermans and that smoke isn't nearly as easy to use the Werhrmacht's smoke.


practice using attack ground effectively
And that's doctrinal, it is the benefit of picking the doc, like self repair, mark target, etc.
15 Jun 2015, 12:55 PM
#127
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jun 2015, 09:23 AMNEVEC
Sherman smoke takes time to use, not to mention about your tank stops when uses it. Meanwhile germans have i escape button that allows in one second pop smoke and 100% escape. it's fine for scout cars and halftrucks but not fine for panter that moves faster than T34.
Suggestion: make this ability 5 seconds to activate and tank should stop when uses this ability to increase micro requirements.

Sherman smoke, like most of USF's great amount of smoke abilities, is more of an offensive thing than a defensive one. A single Sherman can smoke an entire defensive line to cover for your rifles, from range. By comparison OH smoke only protects the tank, and is far easier to nullify with Attack Ground than USF smoke which doesn't so clearly betray the location of the tank.

The problem is that lots of people seem to only realize their Sherman can smoke when it's one shot away from death, then get upset when their offensive ability doesn't save them from losing a tank. Really, if you're at the point where your tank has one shot of health left and you're trying to pop smoke, you're better off just saving the crew in almost every situation.

About CAS doctrine - just replace conversion from instant to Windustry-like passive and it'll be fine.


That actually sounds like a very interesting and effective solution. The big issue with CAS Doctrine is that the player can pretty much choose whenever he wants to turn on the resource conversion, allowing him to stockpile fuel until he actually needs the munitions. By contrast, the weakness of Windustry is that while the player doesn't have to worry about fuel, their manpower limits are far tighter. Forcing CAS players to convert some of their fuel to muni instead of letting them convert at will would reflect a similar limitation. Of course it shouldn't kick in until CP 2 or 3, just to make sure that the OH can at least reach T2 without problems.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2015, 18:55 PMRocket


stuka close air support


See what confused me is that you were responding to someone who suggested that you could exploit CAS Doctrine's lack of armor with your own armor. You were saying that you couldn't in that match because of the Tiger, which CAS Doctrine doesn't have. So you see, Charlie and I were both referring to CAS Doctrine itself, thus the confusion.
15 Jun 2015, 12:58 PM
#128
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jun 2015, 10:28 AMAladdin


practice using attack ground effectively
And that's doctrinal, it is the benefit of picking the doc, like self repair, mark target, etc.


Admittedly, Attack Ground is just about impossible to use for actually chasing down a tank of equal speed, and there's a good chance that the blitzing tank could be out of firing range by the time your own tank reloads. Add to that the way that tanks will just instantly forget about anything they can't see and start turning to shoot at the Pioneer squad cowering behind a fence, and altogether Attack Ground can only nullify the smoke+Blitzkrieg combo so much.
15 Jun 2015, 13:14 PM
#129
avatar of Fluffi

Posts: 211

+1 OP using Blitz to escape is really stupid. And immersion breaking, in a way. The ''mighty Wehrmacht'' with their incredibly fast reverse gears, WTH?
15 Jun 2015, 18:13 PM
#130
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1593

SU has to many "insta-wipe free abilities"

A tank with a damaged engine won't blitz anywhere.

"Attack ground" is a valid counter against smoke
15 Jun 2015, 19:37 PM
#131
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 588

SU has to many "insta-wipe free abilities"

A tank with a damaged engine won't blitz anywhere.

"Attack ground" is a valid counter against smoke


even if your riflemen has already started the process to fire a rifle nade (takes like 3-5 seconds and that only has a decent chance at actually engine dmging a pz4) the smoke immediately stops it from firing, which is also broken. So the second they hear riflenade they have like 3 seconds to smoke and it instantly stops the riflenade from going off.

attack ground is only viable pretty much if you have the tank that smoked pinned with another vehicle or else it will just reverse and like mentioned before won't be caught as well as shermans will immediately start turning to other targets which just makes them take even longer to attack ground and jackson will usually always miss if you guess about where they have started reversing.
15 Jun 2015, 19:43 PM
#132
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 588


See what confused me is that you were responding to someone who suggested that you could exploit CAS Doctrine's lack of armor with your own armor. You were saying that you couldn't in that match because of the Tiger, which CAS Doctrine doesn't have. So you see, Charlie and I were both referring to CAS Doctrine itself, thus the confusion.


That commander I can deal with although the conversion is kind of broken. The stuka cas though with the tiger is broken as hell it literally gives usf no option to fight the tiger it will one shot any USF armor and pretty much cannot be dodged as it will track your armor half way across the map. I have not tried smoking with sherman then driving into it but i'm doubting that will cause it to stop or miss or if I would even have time to.
15 Jun 2015, 21:21 PM
#133
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1890

Smoking doesn't work.
15 Jun 2015, 23:11 PM
#134
avatar of Squeaky Door 96

Posts: 192

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jun 2015, 19:43 PMRocket


That commander I can deal with although the conversion is kind of broken. The stuka cas though with the tiger is broken as hell it literally gives usf no option to fight the tiger it will one shot any USF armor and pretty much cannot be dodged as it will track your armor half way across the map. I have not tried smoking with sherman then driving into it but i'm doubting that will cause it to stop or miss or if I would even have time to.


Same with p47s, they will follow you to your base, keep comming, rape anything they find clumped up in the base.
16 Jun 2015, 05:38 AM
#135
avatar of DAKgasm

Posts: 37

I mean, it has been said before, but blitz working in reverse is pretty silly. Other than that I think OST is fine in terms of 'escapes'.
16 Jun 2015, 06:54 AM
#136
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 856



USF tanks are reasonably fast, .....


Jackson and Sherman are slower then Panther
16 Jun 2015, 06:56 AM
#137
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 856



Same with p47s, they will follow you to your base, keep comming, rape anything they find clumped up in the base.


Simply use AA defese, if you see paras in game.
16 Jun 2015, 07:06 AM
#138
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



Sherman smoke, like most of USF's great amount of smoke abilities, is more of an offensive thing than a defensive one. A single Sherman can smoke an entire defensive line to cover for your rifles, from range. By comparison OH smoke only protects the tank, and is far easier to nullify with Attack Ground than USF smoke which doesn't so clearly betray the location of the tank.

The problem is that lots of people seem to only realize their Sherman can smoke when it's one shot away from death, then get upset when their offensive ability doesn't save them from losing a tank. Really, if you're at the point where your tank has one shot of health left and you're trying to pop smoke, you're better off just saving the crew in almost every situation.



16 Jun 2015, 15:39 PM
#139
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 588



Same with p47s, they will follow you to your base, keep comming, rape anything they find clumped up in the base.


Huge difference it does way less dog and most of the time will not even one shot a pz4 and the rockets are inaccurate. Stuka cas does not miss and one shots anything other than 152 and IS2 but still takes them to about 1/4 - 1/2 hp. There is no denying Stuka cas is broken as fuck and oh yeah it's cheaper than p47s. Also if you have an okw teammate there
Buildings that they start he game with and will eventually make that counter the p47s with out you having to do anything.
16 Jun 2015, 16:45 PM
#140
avatar of Squeaky Door 96

Posts: 192

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2015, 15:39 PMRocket


Huge difference it does way less dog and most of the time will not even one shot a pz4 and the rockets are inaccurate. Stuka cas does not miss and one shots anything other than 152 and IS2 but still takes them to about 1/4 - 1/2 hp. There is no denying Stuka cas is broken as fuck and oh yeah it's cheaper than p47s. Also if you have an okw teammate there
Buildings that they start he game with and will eventually make that counter the p47s with out you having to do anything.


Where did I deny anything about the CAS stuka strafe? I don't think it is broken, the entire commander is a sore spot when it comes to balance. Yet the only really viable option vs the soviet and USF blobbing is CAS. So some of the whining about CAS has its base at Allied blobbing.
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