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Why isnt Lend Lease meta?

11 May 2015, 06:01 AM
#41
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440



Have you ever even used Assault Guards? Again; they aren't bloody shock troops but they do well for what your paying for.


I was talking about the stats. Also at 5 CP they come really too late. Assault grans come at 0 CP, shock troops/guards at 2 CP, Falls at 3 CP
11 May 2015, 06:20 AM
#42
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



I was talking about the stats. Also at 5 CP they come really too late. Assault grans come at 0 CP, shock troops/guards at 2 CP, Falls at 3 CP


They do come lateish and it would be nice if they could be pushed up, but the HT they come with is supposed to be made from t3 which normally can be build around the 5 CP mark, which is why I assume Relic decided to time them that way.

The power of the commander is being able to neglect teching, allowing you to horde loadsa fuel, not that it has super good elite infantry like most Sov docs.
11 May 2015, 06:31 AM
#43
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Anyway here are the stats for the M4C:

Hitpoints:
640.0
Armor:
160.0
Rear armor:
80.0
Max speed:
6.5
Pop:
14.0
Cost time:
90.0
Cost manpower:
380.0
Cost fuel:
135.0

Penetration:
140.0/130.0/120.0
Scatter angle:
7.5
Scatter distance:
5.0
AoE radius:
2.0
AoE far:
1.5
AoE mid:
1.0
AoE near:
0.5

For only 10 more fuel your getting 20 more pen than a PIV, a second faster reload, far better accuracy on the move, better scatter, tiny bit better speed, and only 20 less armor.

It's bar none the best, most cost efficient Sherman in the game.

11 May 2015, 08:09 AM
#44
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8



Have you ever even used Assault Guards? Again; they aren't bloody shock troops but they do well for what your paying for.

No, they don't.
There is a reason no one ever said "oh wow! 5CP at last! I'm going to get me some assault guards!"
instead its always "nice, I wen't T4 and can have M5 as well, if it only would come without these overpriced, no utility and no combat role ppsh cons wanabees.".
11 May 2015, 08:17 AM
#45
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 May 2015, 08:09 AMKatitof

No, they don't.
There is a reason no one ever said "oh wow! 5CP at last! I'm going to get me some assault guards!"
instead its always "nice, I wen't T4 and can have M5 as well, if it only would come without these overpriced, no utility and no combat role ppsh cons wanabees.".


It's almost like I just said this, try reading all of my posts before you reply. And they use the shock troop PPsh.

They are like Ass grens; simply mediocre. Not terrible, not good. Could they use help? Yes, right now are they unusable? No. Get them to pad out your army and increase your capping power, don't spam them.
11 May 2015, 08:38 AM
#46
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

Yes.

They are like ass grens.

Except they hit the field 5 CP later, with no vet and at a high cost.

That is pretty terrible unless you constantly wiped opponents squads to erase his vet and upgrades, ass guards are no better then ppsh conscripts when they arrive and in a lot of areas perform even worse.

The unit is terrible, its a 0 CP unit who arrives at 5 as was already said.
11 May 2015, 08:38 AM
#47
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned


Dushka's are top notch Elite inf. What are you on about?

Fuel drops are fine, you just need to learn how to use them properly. They are excellent vs OKW because they allow you to spam Shermans.

Assault Guards are AWESOME. Put them in an M3 and it's GG.


in m3 really ? unit who are in 5 CP (what need change) and have strange weapon ppsh and SVT o_O (what need change too) :D.
11 May 2015, 08:40 AM
#48
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
Commander:

-Dhska is kinda lackluster for it's 300mp cost. AP rounds sucks since the change of profile and even at that time the time it took for them to reload kinda makes them unuseful.
Arrives too late to make any impact. 0CP was a bit insane, but at 1CP it would arrive at the same time as a maxim.

-Allied supply drop gets countered after the Schwerer HQ is deployed and it's not as cost effective. I haven't use it in a while, but isn't it RNG the amount of fuel you get?

-M5: nice having a halftrack without the need of teching. Assault Guards are just Assault Grens at 5CP.

-Con repair kit: since you don't have any Elite infantry, you'll be having plenty of them.

-M4C: really nice medium tank. Sucks againts anything heavier (which means practically everything you'll face).


Overall: it's not a bad commander, but not top tier at all. Something you use when you want to try something different but you still are trying to win.


+++
11 May 2015, 08:46 AM
#49
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 May 2015, 08:38 AMKatitof
Yes.

They are like ass grens.

Except they hit the field 5 CP later, with no vet and at a high cost.

That is pretty terrible unless you constantly wiped opponents squads to erase his vet and upgrades, ass guards are no better then ppsh conscripts when they arrive and in a lot of areas perform even worse.

The unit is terrible, its a 0 CP unit who arrives at 5 as was already said.


I can imagine Relic Devs while designing it and Reco USF commanders.
1st guy - I would like to give Sov and USF a call-in truck as Ostheer has but I don't know how to get it not too early to not push to much their early dominance.
2st guy - Put a random expensive unit on it, something that can do anything good at CP5, so the truck is expensive and the cp call-in is not overpowered.
1st guy - Get it! I'll put 2 close range squads that will get their ass ripe out from anything on the field at the stage of the game they arrive.
11 May 2015, 13:07 PM
#50
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

Some of you are acting like every inf unit gets useless beyond 3CP's. Lost a Conscript? Too bad, wont get another one as its pointless by now. Such flawed logic. Assault guards have reasonable performance in my experience and i used them frequently in the last couple of days. Some of you maybe should stop being a forum warrior, play the game and be open to new things.
11 May 2015, 13:42 PM
#51
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Personally, I think Lend Lease commander is probably the most fun commander to play with at the moment. The DSHK machine gun is alright, but I mostly use it in combination with T1. Shermans are the fun part of this doctrine. I have no problem having 2+ Shermans mostly if I don't tech.
11 May 2015, 14:11 PM
#52
avatar of Volsky

Posts: 344

People are forgetting that AssGuards (;D) now have four PPShs and two SVTs after the whole Conscript PPSh change thingy. So they have pretty tits mid-range DPS, and since they have rifles their close range DPS isn't what it could be. If they had 3 and 3, I'd inclinded to like them a little more.
11 May 2015, 15:11 PM
#53
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Time for some info:
-Assault Guards use 4 PPSH and 2 SVT
-It seems they use the Shock PPSH (Guard Troop assault package > shock troops_ppsh-41_sub_machine_gun_mp)
-They reinforce for 27, i think equally to normal Guards (330/12)



Some of you are acting like every inf unit gets useless beyond 3CP's. Lost a Conscript? Too bad, wont get another one as its pointless by now. Such flawed logic. Assault guards have reasonable performance in my experience and i used them frequently in the last couple of days. Some of you maybe should stop being a forum warrior, play the game and be open to new things.


Conscripts are cheaper, can merge into other units, hoorah and are a snare platform. Nobody will sacrifice their Guards because they are useless popcap. The point is, no one call them in for what they are, just because it comes included with the M5.

I'm pretty sure people got tired of "trying" new things like a couple of months ago. People will go for the route of less resistance. Not everyone likes handicapping themselves.
Again, it's pretty obvious why they are not meta, but that doesn't mean it's a bad commander at all.
11 May 2015, 15:46 PM
#54
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

Time for some info:
-Assault Guards use 4 PPSH and 2 SVT
-It seems they use the Shock PPSH (Guard Troop assault package > shock troops_ppsh-41_sub_machine_gun_mp)
-They reinforce for 27, i think equally to normal Guards (330/12)





Conscripts are cheaper, can merge into other units, hoorah and are a snare platform. Nobody will sacrifice their Guards because they are useless popcap. The point is, no one call them in for what they are, just because it comes included with the M5.

I'm pretty sure people got tired of "trying" new things like a couple of months ago. People will go for the route of less resistance. Not everyone likes handicapping themselves.
Again, it's pretty obvious why they are not meta, but that doesn't mean it's a bad commander at all.


They arent the kind of unit you would explicitly go for, they are more of a luxury, as already stated in the original post. They are also reasonably effective at what they are supposed to do, they are far from being useless popcap.

And for the less resistance route thing, its really beyond me how some people can go for the same commander every single game. Its getting really, really boring after some time. Especially when considering some hidden gems in the lesser used commanders, like Lend Lease.
11 May 2015, 18:05 PM
#55
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Time for some info:
-Assault Guards use 4 PPSH and 2 SVT
-It seems they use the Shock PPSH (Guard Troop assault package > shock troops_ppsh-41_sub_machine_gun_mp)
-They reinforce for 27, i think equally to normal Guards (330/12)





Conscripts are cheaper, can merge into other units, hoorah and are a snare platform. Nobody will sacrifice their Guards because they are useless popcap. The point is, no one call them in for what they are, just because it comes included with the M5.

I'm pretty sure people got tired of "trying" new things like a couple of months ago. People will go for the route of less resistance. Not everyone likes handicapping themselves.
Again, it's pretty obvious why they are not meta, but that doesn't mean it's a bad commander at all.


A "non-meta" commander can often times surprise the hell out of an opponent that's used to countering cookie cutter fun times. This in my experience is the power of the Sturmtiger; nobody ever expects it and when it hits the field it often causes people to freak the fuck out and all concentrate on it leaving the rest of your forces free reign on the battlefield.

Considering the fact the M4C is bar none the best generalist medium in the game by a long shot I would call Lend Lease anything but a just "not-bad" commander. It plays into call in meta perfectly, giving you all the tools you need to avoid teching. Just go T1+T2 and have fun.
11 May 2015, 18:13 PM
#56
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1



A "non-meta" commander can often times surprise the hell out of an opponent that's used to countering cookie cutter fun times. This in my experience is the power of the Sturmtiger; nobody ever expects it and when it hits the field it often causes people to freak the fuck out and all concentrate on it leaving the rest of your forces free reign on the battlefield.

Considering the fact the M4C is bar none the best generalist medium in the game by a long shot I would call Lend Lease anything but a just "not-bad" commander. It plays into call in meta perfectly, giving you all the tools you need to avoid teching. Just go T1+T2 and have fun.


I got a Sturmtiger to complement a Panther recently, and it was very, very effective. This thing is a beast but not easily affordable in a 1v1 scenario.
11 May 2015, 18:34 PM
#57
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



I got a Sturmtiger to complement a Panther recently, and it was very, very effective. This thing is a beast but not easily affordable in a 1v1 scenario.


Yeah I find it works best in 2's.
11 May 2015, 19:19 PM
#58
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned


Yeah I find it works best in 2's.


guards + button + ISU + marked target + IL2 insta-rape strike



I haven't had the best luck lately with the stumrtiger due to this commander

it not only rapes the sturmtiger, it hard counters the entire okw design

11 May 2015, 19:46 PM
#59
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



guards + button + ISU + marked target + IL2 insta-rape strike



I haven't had the best luck lately with the stumrtiger due to this commander

it not only rapes the sturmtiger, it hard counters the entire okw design



The ISU has piss poor DPS, meaning using it to hit a Sturmtiger is typically a waste of time. The best counter to the Sturmtiger is massed cheap anti armor like medium tanks, not slow firing units. Which is why the Jackson is a poor counter to it as well.

A better counter is T34/85's, but even then if your Sturmtiger is supported you can deal with them.
11 May 2015, 19:47 PM
#60
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

Come on Queen, button? When was last time you've used it?
I could understand alex saying its the best thing in the world despite doing almost nothing for 40 muni, but you? :)
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