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OKW Op.... really?

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7 May 2015, 21:56 PM
#1
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128

Okay let's stop this go to reason for all the buff X discussions. I'll cover team games here since only the l2p and insane claim OKW is OP in 1v1. First lets look at the meta. Allied can overwhelm and subdue Axis in early and mid game. Axis mistakes at this stage can be capitalized on by an organized team and crush them. Now Axis reaches late game, it begins a snowball effect the longer the late goes on. (though Allied can under right conditions snowball early-mid game leads into late game wins by strangling axis) Allied will be punished much more for mistakes leading up to late game than AXis mistakes on the course of mid game. Now someone tell me what is the list of reasons OKW is OP? Then lets us discuss if it truly is unbeatable and way over performing like most threads claim.

I know some of you are tired of the meta. AXIS Late game crush hur hur..Allied overwhelm early hur hur. Keep in mind for that to change to be 50/50 requires some nerfs and buffs on all sides, tech tree changes, call-in changes, and redesigns taking away faction flavor a bit.
7 May 2015, 22:09 PM
#2
avatar of Hawking

Posts: 113

I don't think anyone right now thinks OKW is OP.
They're verging between underperforming and just right, imo.

At least until they get this(NDA):
7 May 2015, 22:21 PM
#3
7 May 2015, 22:25 PM
#4
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1173 | Subs: 3

I don't think anyone right now thinks OKW is OP.
They're verging between underperforming and just right, imo.

At least until they get this(NDA):


HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

thank you so much.
7 May 2015, 22:27 PM
#5
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2609

OKW is fine now except 2 things:

- general repair speed is too high
- they have too many features the original factions need commanders for
- (the Flak emplacement is still op)
- (panther frontal armor is too high imo)
- (blitz need to get deleted from the game)


Btw: The early game advantage of allies is a myth.


What the fuck have I read... :foreveralone:
7 May 2015, 22:31 PM
#6
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3087 | Subs: 1


I have no idea what this is aside from being the greatest thing ever
7 May 2015, 22:34 PM
#7
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1173 | Subs: 3

I think it's wrong to discuss faction strength on the basis of timing. Rather, strengths lie in offensive vs. defensive design. The axis are much more defensive factions, if they manage to creep forward and take ground, they can be difficult to dislodge. Whereas the allies achieve the same by applying constant aggressive pressure until they suffer from attrition or become exhausted.
7 May 2015, 22:34 PM
#8
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

Like you mentioned, Axis in 3v3 and 4v4 snowball hard into the end game.

It used to be "win before 25 minutes or surrender". The last round of OKW nerfs helped, but the stronger Axis late game is still prevalent

I know asymmetric balance will never be perfect, but I don't think I'm alone in wanting both factions to be competitive at all stages of the game.
7 May 2015, 22:42 PM
#9
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Yeah it pretty much goes without saying that the whole "lets design factions around being best at certain points in the game" idea is really dumb because it takes a lot of skill out of the equation.

It's dumb that an Allied player can win the game in the first opening minutes of a match, it's equally dumb that there is a time limit on how long a game can go on before the Axis heavys snowball into each other and you have KT's supported by Elefants.
7 May 2015, 22:58 PM
#10
avatar of Sandblastednut

Posts: 21

Coh1 was like this.
7 May 2015, 22:58 PM
#11
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

Dunno teamgames. In 1s and 2s OKW is everything but op now, in fact, in 1s, against Soviets, OKW is seriously disadvantaged.
7 May 2015, 23:09 PM
#12
avatar of Tristan44

Posts: 915

OKw is underperforming terribly. The KT melts even vs t35/85 and marked target. Is2 is crazy strong. AMERICAN infantry well... They are American infantry. But the big difference is between Okw vs soviets

Speaking from a 1v1 and 2v2 perspective. Not concerned about bigger games
7 May 2015, 23:12 PM
#13
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

OKw is underperforming terribly. The KT melts even vs t35/85 and marked target. Is2 is crazy strong. AMERICAN infantry well... They are American infantry. But the big difference is between Okw vs soviets


How can you even say that when the Stuka is so mega OP? And OP-soldaten keep wiping my engineers, it's not fair, I don't have MP so buy healing or amberlance. KT so stronk, u need flank wit 8 jackson and then the shrek blob jus come and OP you in teh face!


On a serious note, I agree completely and OKW really suffer early game vs sovs. Clown car and demo. . .
7 May 2015, 23:28 PM
#14
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

A lot of people are still really bitter about how broken OKW were on WFA release and it shows.
8 May 2015, 00:01 AM
#15
avatar of ilGetUSomDay

Posts: 612

A lot of people are still really bitter about how broken OKW were on WFA release and it shows.


I imagine it has a lot to do with what you mentioned earlier with the whole late game vs early game design. Its one thing to mess up and die early game, but its rather quite a bit more frustrating to loose a slow grind on a game that was just about won.
8 May 2015, 00:07 AM
#16
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



I imagine it has a lot to do with what you mentioned earlier with the whole late game vs early game design. Its one thing to mess up and die early game, but its rather quite a bit more frustrating to loose a slow grind on a game that was just about won.


Pretty much. The biggest issue with OKW at the moment is that it's hard to balance a faction for 1's and 2's while taking into account 3's and 4's.

Right now OKW is fairly weak in 1's and 2's, but excellent in 3's and 4's.
8 May 2015, 00:23 AM
#17
avatar of ilGetUSomDay

Posts: 612



Pretty much. The biggest issue with OKW at the moment is that it's hard to balance a faction for 1's and 2's while taking into account 3's and 4's.

Right now OKW is fairly weak in 1's and 2's, but excellent in 3's and 4's.


I personally think it gets amplified in those game modes but the primary problem is still pretty evident in both large and small. I will say with how Soviets are right now its a lot easier to deal with the late game for them so they play most consistently well. USF still suffers pretty bad in the late game, and both axis factions suffer much the same in the early game.
8 May 2015, 00:59 AM
#18
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1226

OKW is fine now except 2 things:

- general repair speed is too high
- they have too many features the original factions need commanders for
- (the Flak emplacement is still op)
- (panther frontal armor is too high imo)
- (blitz need to get deleted from the game)


Btw: The early game advantage of allies is a myth (in teamgames)


All of those will be denied requests because all of those follow their purpose and blitz only gives a 15% speed bonus to OKW vehicles except the OKW P4 which no one uses cause it sucks which is 30%. Sturmpio repair speed is the only thing that makes them worth their cost and their early game advantage. If someone spammed sturmpios on you and succeeded then you just plain suck. Allied early game advantage is also not a myth, the riflemen from the USF gives you an advantage early on. In my experience of USF riflemen have been greatly useful to me and they also tempt me to overextend at the same time. That is since they present a strong influence early on which tempts you to throw away your advantage early on.
8 May 2015, 01:07 AM
#19
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 588

Please tell me how early game the allies have the benefit when the okw gets an almost immediate forward retreat point that USF does not get until they tech to major like wtf???

Obviously we have to run a mile back to base to refit, okw doesn't. We have to make a ambulance to heal them okw doesn't. Which is very relative a 5 man squad with only half squad hp might as well be a 2 man squad with full hp which happens all the time. As said before Allies early game is a myth. I mean shit you even have a mobile suppressing machine that strums can repair faster than we can destroy it with like 3 squads.

Point is you can overwhelm us easily just because you don't have to take near the time to get back to the contested point as well as I believe this promotes okw inf blobs early on and obviously 1 vet rifle squad cant beat two or more squads at once even in cover.

also early/mid game you can pull shreks out of your infantrys back pocket to react to a situation like sat a USF flak truck. We have to go alllllll the way back to base as well as spend resources to unlock them and equip them which can only be done at our base. Oh and the shrek is almost 5 times better than the zook that you can equip on the field.

Okw is best it has been right now as far as balance the only thing they need is a walking stukka nerf. In the last patch Relic took considerable time to even out the counterparts of allies and axis as well as take away lethality. Stukka not the case way better than the katusha. With simple guessing and on some maps there is nothing you can do to get squads wiped as retreats are highly predictable. Well then don't blob you say? Then how can my infantry fight okw blobs? They can't.

Travishamockery.
8 May 2015, 01:18 AM
#20
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1226

I have rarely ever used the major retreat point in my experience or the OKW forward retreat because most of the time they turn into deathtraps which is quite sad when I can benefit from the screwed up pathing to my HQ in which any vehicles chasing my men would do three point turns before heading to destination which saves my men from getting more massacred. One thing about your USF Flak Truck usage is that it is suicidal. If you meet a decent player and you do that I can guarantee you that it will run over a mine for overextending and then proceeding to get donut killed by infantry. Donut killed as in the infantry run circles around your thing and throw nades until it dies. The ambulance does need a buff that is what I agree on though. The OKW medic HQ is vulnerable early game. OKW players usually overextend with them but its not best to rush all your men in first if you see it. You have about a minute to kill it with the infantry you have before it set ups so take 30 seconds to seek the best way to attack it. Attack it from cover or go in if and focus fire one of the units protecting the truck then fire on the truck whilst the OKW player is panicking whether that he will lose the unit that he orders to retreat or not. The walking stuka by-far is the easiest artillery unit to avoid. It shoots in a straight line so you don't have to worry about random RNG Scatter in which one of the rockets hits one of your squads and kills them off like a katyusha. The Stuka also makes one of the loudest firing noises in the game so you should also be able to predict and avoid it quickly. You can easily predict where the barrage will land just looking at where most of your units are and move them to the side so the stuka will miss.
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