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OKW Op.... really?

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16 Jun 2015, 11:34 AM
#261
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13662 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2015, 11:21 AMChiro


Please explain the reason.


Anyway
what good reason is there to not include any form of blob counter for a faction
without an mg you have to spam inf or have flakht

in the lategame you must spam inf because all light vehicles are ineffective because of paks/td's

Flak HT, Stuka, ISG, these are all blob counter options.
MG is only one of the ways and its definitely not the most effective one.
16 Jun 2015, 11:42 AM
#262
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 855

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2015, 11:21 AMChiro


Please explain the reason.


Anyway
what good reason is there to not include any form of blob counter for a faction
without an mg you have to spam inf or have flakht

in the lategame you must spam inf because all light vehicles are ineffective because of paks/td's


Side with MG, infantry, strum pio and AT gun in first tier?
Absence MG is price for best elite infantry, best heavy tank and best TD (JagPzIV) in game.
17 Jun 2015, 10:07 AM
#263
avatar of DAKgasm

Posts: 37

Volks are roughly equal to Conscripts in AI abilities averaged at all game stages.

Every faction has TD, so Jagdpanzer.

Kubel, I agree.

IR Halftrack is a cool idea.

No non doc MG is supposed to encourage offensive action. In terms of flavor I agree-Ostheer is the support weapon faction.

Flak track and Luchs actually have completely different roles.



That is true about Volks, however I was mostly using that bullet point to bring issue to the following point that, "Volks' AT focus causes call-in reliance as Obersoldatan aren't worth it compared to Falls."
Imo an upgrade to increase anti-infantry and swapping PzSchrecks for a Faust upgrade makes more sense to me. I know it would be pretty similar to OST grenadiers, but maybe like, 2-3 stg's instead of an mg42? An increase in mobility but decrease in overall damage output when compared to OST grens.

Fair point on JPIV

IR Halftrack iscool, I just wish it had a bit more incentive so we'd see it more.

I agree again on the non doc mg

I am confused though as to Flaktrack and Luchs. I'm aware that one is obviously more armoured,
but I feel like they're both just for area denial/anti-infantry? I'm probably missing something obvious...
22 Jun 2015, 17:22 PM
#264
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 588

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2015, 10:40 AMJohnnyB


And what that purpose may be? I think alot of people - including allied hardcore fans - will be more pleased if kubel will be swiched with Mg34 because you will basicaly replace a unit that is quite useful in startgame at least with a unit with a dubious usefulness throughout the game. Let's not pretend we don't know Mg34 is shit and Kubel is useful.


I would much rather see the mg34 over the kubel simply because of how fast it can get to cut off points especially on open maps where you cannot really sneak around it or garrison in nearby buildings the kubel can really screw over USF early on if they go lieut and the okw player has good micro.

I don't feel the mg34 is shit tho it does a huge amount of dps with the ap rounds button and generally is going to stay around a lot longer than the kubel and get a lot more overall use unless the above is acomplished. I'd rather have a mg34 than a maxim or even a 50 cal I think. Maxim is complete shit now.
22 Jun 2015, 18:23 PM
#265
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2015, 17:22 PMRocket


I would much rather see the mg34 over the kubel simply because of how fast it can get to cut off points especially on open maps where you cannot really sneak around it or garrison in nearby buildings the kubel can really screw over USF early on if they go lieut and the okw player has good micro.

I don't feel the mg34 is shit tho it does a huge amount of dps with the ap rounds button and generally is going to stay around a lot longer than the kubel and get a lot more overall use unless the above is acomplished. I'd rather have a mg34 than a maxim or even a 50 cal I think. Maxim is complete shit now.


What you said above makes me think you have little experience with Okw and little 1v1 experience because it's pure theory crafting. If you would experience more often the marvelous mg34 you would think twice before using it. In my case, if I don't build kubel, it usually means that I will build no suppressing unit throughout the game.
22 Jun 2015, 18:37 PM
#266
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 588

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2015, 18:23 PMJohnnyB


What you said above makes me think you have little experience with Okw and little 1v1 experience because it's pure theory crafting. If you would experience more often the marvelous mg34 you would think twice before using it. In my case, if I don't build kubel, it usually means that I will build no suppressing unit throughout the game.


The suppression sucks but that is going to be fixed I think it will be much more viable after the patch. Usually the only experience I get with the mg34 is when I am fighting it or I steal it as I am repulsed to play as OKW. I do that quite often stealing german support weapons is like Christmas especially mortars as USF. Just depends It might not be as use full in 1v1 flanking is easier, but 2v2 and up I see the mg34 do alright and it is about to get a lot better.

What I meant above tho was I would love to see okw get mg34 instead of the kubel as far as playing against okw because the 34 is more easily flanked, comes out slow and the kubel can just be repaired faster then 2 riflemen can dps it down. I suppose okw need the kubel for 1v1 though.
23 Jun 2015, 04:55 AM
#267
avatar of Товарищ

Posts: 1

I think in 4v4,OKW is really OP.While 1v1 so fragile and weak .
23 Jun 2015, 07:20 AM
#268
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 22

I think we can all agree. USF OP. :foreveralone:
24 Jun 2015, 03:52 AM
#269
avatar of TomOfAction
Benefactor 341

Posts: 84

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jun 2015, 07:20 AMVonIvan
I think we can all agree. USF OP. :foreveralone:


I would say Soviets are the best (not really "OP) faction for what most people end up doing as Allies. They have a good mix of armor availability and commander selection, and who doesn't like a lol-counter to blobs (demo charges)? :P
24 Jun 2015, 03:54 AM
#270
avatar of TomOfAction
Benefactor 341

Posts: 84

TLDR: OKW has went from being one of the spammiest, arguably overpowered factions in the game, to one of the most underpowered-to-just-right factions, in the game. Every faction besides Oberkommando West has something that allows the player to truly accel and take advantage of climbing a wall that would have otherwise been unscalable as another faction. But, that's just my two-cent.
1 Nov 2015, 02:16 AM
#271
avatar of WeißAlchimist

Posts: 112

Okay let's stop this go to reason for all the buff X discussions. I'll cover team games here since only the l2p and insane claim OKW is OP in 1v1. First lets look at the meta. Allied can overwhelm and subdue Axis in early and mid game. Axis mistakes at this stage can be capitalized on by an organized team and crush them. Now Axis reaches late game, it begins a snowball effect the longer the late goes on. (though Allied can under right conditions snowball early-mid game leads into late game wins by strangling axis) Allied will be punished much more for mistakes leading up to late game than AXis mistakes on the course of mid game. Now someone tell me what is the list of reasons OKW is OP? Then lets us discuss if it truly is unbeatable and way over performing like most threads claim.

I know some of you are tired of the meta. AXIS Late game crush hur hur..Allied overwhelm early hur hur. Keep in mind for that to change to be 50/50 requires some nerfs and buffs on all sides, tech tree changes, call-in changes, and redesigns taking away faction flavor a bit.


I think it's wrong to discuss faction strength on the basis of timing. Rather, strengths lie in offensive vs. defensive design. The axis are much more defensive factions, if they manage to creep forward and take ground, they can be difficult to dislodge. Whereas the allies achieve the same by applying constant aggressive pressure until they suffer from attrition or become exhausted.


Like you mentioned, Axis in 3v3 and 4v4 snowball hard into the end game.

It used to be "win before 25 minutes or surrender". The last round of OKW nerfs helped, but the stronger Axis late game is still prevalent

I know asymmetric balance will never be perfect, but I don't think I'm alone in wanting both factions to be competitive at all stages of the game.


Yeah it pretty much goes without saying that the whole "lets design factions around being best at certain points in the game" idea is really dumb because it takes a lot of skill out of the equation.

It's dumb that an Allied player can win the game in the first opening minutes of a match, it's equally dumb that there is a time limit on how long a game can go on before the Axis heavys snowball into each other and you have KT's supported by Elefants.


All wrong.

All l2p issues.

OKW not OP.



1 Nov 2015, 02:18 AM
#272
avatar of WeißAlchimist

Posts: 112

I think in 4v4,OKW is really OP.While 1v1 so fragile and weak .


Wow, a SU player with an accurate, unbiased post?!

Now, I've seen it all.

Sure you don't wanna change it? before stalin sees?
1 Nov 2015, 02:28 AM
#273
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128









All wrong.

All l2p issues.

OKW not OP.





My post is not about OKW being OP..it's a discussion point because I was tired of all the OKW OP post. Anyway that was under a different patch. OKW is undeniably anything but OP atm.
1 Nov 2015, 02:31 AM
#274
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 923




All wrong.

All l2p issues.

OKW not OP.





Exactly how much digging did you do to post that?
1 Nov 2015, 02:51 AM
#275
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

Mods please close this thread :hansRAGE:
1 Nov 2015, 02:58 AM
#276
avatar of BlackKorp

Posts: 962 | Subs: 2

Mods please close this thread :hansRAGE:


who was digging this old garbage out? :D
1 Nov 2015, 03:01 AM
#277
avatar of Jagdfalke

Posts: 33

Holy thread-necro
1 Nov 2015, 03:42 AM
#278
avatar of WeißAlchimist

Posts: 112

My apologies, for some reason it showed up on first page for me.

I really should have checked the dates first.

Again,

My apologies.
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