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Sturm pioneers are overpriced

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6 Mar 2015, 18:12 PM
#101
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Honestly all the starting units should get a 5th man and have their DPS kept the same, it's really dumb how lucky squad wipes can gimp you early game.


Then that is a problem with everything that can squadwipe (and most importantly, CoH2 unit formation forever locked out of modding and out of the engine's league).
6 Mar 2015, 18:21 PM
#102
avatar of Jaridan

Posts: 45



sweepers do not prevent demos from being detonated and never have.

this makes it fucking annoying to try and deal with them because your sweeper squad keeps trying to sweep them even though the other player will detonate the demo if if you let them.


hmm, just tested it, yeah they don't prevent.

I thought they did because there were a couple of situations where i couldnt use them for some reason, oh well prolly game bugging around :S.
6 Mar 2015, 18:22 PM
#103
avatar of Ubertoaster

Posts: 38



Then that is a problem with everything that can squadwipe (and most importantly, CoH2 unit formation forever locked out of modding and out of the engine's league).


Detect demos -> ground fire -> win
I don't disarm demo charges. I don't risk too much.
6 Mar 2015, 18:23 PM
#104
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Smoke is either used for retreats, Los block against HMG's, or to charge the enemy by surprise. You only do so with close combat troops as anything ranged will be put at a disadvantage. If the enemy did not move (either a. Does not suspect you to charge into the smoke or b. Is a team weapon) then you cut them down. If they did move, you just retreat back into the smoke; never you simply "die on the other side".

Meant for shocks for obvious reasons, as long as they have 4 or more men alive.


Smoke is the absolute best for capping a point or holding an objective and forcing the enemy to come to you. For instance, in a close game were VP's on both sides are getting extremely low smoke can be an excellent way to allow your troops to cap with impunity.

Against skilled players the value of smoke for rushing positions drops off heavily mid to late game as they will have enough MG's covering each other that you will need a lot of smoke.

Then that is a problem with everything that can squadwipe (and most importantly, CoH2 unit formation forever locked out of modding and out of the engine's league).


Squad wiping early game isn't normally due to explosives gimping your bunched infantry (other than early nades), it's normally just due to unlucky RNG. I just feel like making the starting units more forgiving with their durability would be nice way to make early game less of an insane micro test.

You can keep a squads DPS the same even if you increase the models, so I don't see why it's an issue. The "Axis 4 men Soviets 6 men" standard has been dead for a while, I fail to see why we need to stick to it ;)
6 Mar 2015, 18:25 PM
#105
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



hmm, just tested it, yeah they don't prevent.

I thought they did because there were a couple of situations where i couldnt use them for some reason, oh well prolly game bugging around :S.


Don't walk over mines either, always make sure you using attack ground to kill them. Iv wiped many an enemy squad because they though they were being a smart ass using a sweeper on my S mine fields.

A mortar barrage makes quick work of such arrogance.
6 Mar 2015, 18:34 PM
#106
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053


You can keep a squads DPS the same even if you increase the models, so I don't see why it's an issue. The "Axis 4 men Soviets 6 men" standard has been dead for a while, I fail to see why we need to stick to it ;)


That is an aspect of design, and we all know how Relic feels about the design of their factions...

As for RNG, you must remember to sacrifice a goat before every game, or else your own plane will be shot down and crash on your retreat point filled with infantry...
6 Mar 2015, 18:40 PM
#107
avatar of ofield

Posts: 420

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Mar 2015, 17:44 PMJaigen


Ad that flamethrower in the mix. you likely get different results. take note however that ost/okw baseline infantry is more about long range combat then short range combat. i would say that the potential for AE is higher then the SP's.


I'd say your bias is higher than your IQ
6 Mar 2015, 18:45 PM
#108
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



That is an aspect of design, and we all know how Relic feels about the design of their factions...

As for RNG, you must remember to sacrifice a goat before every game, or else your own plane will be shot down and crash on your retreat point filled with infantry...


Soviets had 6 men squads to represent the numerical superiority of Soviet infantry, but now with OKW that makes no sense anymore.

Honestly just having 5-6 man squads be standard across all factions would go a long way towards making things less RNG dependent.
6 Mar 2015, 19:07 PM
#109
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Mar 2015, 18:40 PMofield


I'd say your bias is higher than your IQ
:clap:
6 Mar 2015, 19:32 PM
#110
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Mar 2015, 18:40 PMofield


I'd say your bias is higher than your IQ


i know i know im a fucking biased genius.
6 Mar 2015, 19:34 PM
#111
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



Detect demos -> ground fire -> win
I don't disarm demo charges. I don't risk too much.


I dont think you can even disarm demo's. never tried it myself if its possible to risky as you said yourself. but target ground has an annoying habit of not working unless the aoe is sufficient. only good way to blow a demo is using a nade.
6 Mar 2015, 21:34 PM
#112
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17883 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Mar 2015, 18:40 PMofield


I'd say your bias is higher than your IQ

How much higher?
Because, you know, if only slightly higher, then that still would be quite low.
6 Mar 2015, 21:53 PM
#113
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Sturms DPS falls off pretty hard when they move because they don't have the same bonus as the Pgren's StG44's do so if you want to kill a sturm at the start get him chasing you and just kill him with another infantry unit.

Sturmpioneers' MP44 has the same movement penalties as the Panzergrenadiers': http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/assault_pioneer_mp44_smg_mp, http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/panzer_grenadier_mp44_smg_mp
6 Mar 2015, 22:03 PM
#114
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Mar 2015, 21:53 PMVuther

Sturmpioneers' MP44 has the same movement penalties as the Panzergrenadiers': http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/assault_pioneer_mp44_smg_mp, http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/panzer_grenadier_mp44_smg_mp


I could have sworn at one time Pgrens had better accuracy on the move. Ah, well the fall off on the Sturm StG 44 is greater.

Still though, don't chase people with your Sturms kid.

EDIT: Shit I was thinking about how in general pgrens can still hit accurately on the move, not them directly in relation to sturms.
6 Mar 2015, 22:05 PM
#115
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

I could have sworn at one time Pgrens had better accuracy on the move.
It was before the March Deployment when PGs had no accuracy penalty on the move what so ever, which was super funny to use but the gameplay's definitely better off without out.
6 Mar 2015, 22:50 PM
#116
avatar of Nathanm465

Posts: 204

Permanently Banned
When will you people start realizing that Relic won't change anything anymore unless they can either squeeze money out of it, or make a base for eventual money squeezing.
7 Mar 2015, 02:10 AM
#117
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2



So you have never used smoke spam to make his Volk/Obers blob unable to see shit or used smoke in order to cap points with out having to deal with the Schwer or MG bunkers?


Yes, that's what it's for

Its not

And the point of smoke is you throw it to make him come to you, not so you can rush at him.


Who are you playing?

Who has a smoke grenade thrown in front of them and thinks it's a good idea to move into the smoke?
7 Mar 2015, 02:50 AM
#118
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Yes, that's what it's for

Its not



Who are you playing?

Who has a smoke grenade thrown in front of them and thinks it's a good idea to move into the smoke?


If you click on an enemy unit and tell it to attack, if smoke obscures the units sight and the player isn't paying attention the unit will run into the smoke.

And if your capping a super important point normally the enemy will come to you to stop you since losing a unit is better than losing if it stalls the enemy.
7 Mar 2015, 04:48 AM
#119
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

i have never seen a unit run into smoke due to inattention.
7 Mar 2015, 04:51 AM
#120
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

If you attack a unit and it moves out the firing range of said unit, that unit will chase it. Smoke just allows you to make the unit not able to see you instead of rounding a corner.

Throwing smoke forward and behind you is also a good way to trap players.
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