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Sturm pioneers are overpriced

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19 Mar 2015, 16:37 PM
#141
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

The ISG isn't able to damage buildings very much, and it's only effective when used as a direct fire unit when the enemy is in direct LOS, making it very ineffective as a indirect fire unit.

Sturms are good against some houses depending on the window placement as well as who loses more models first, a full 4 model Sturmsquad can normally pull it off if it's lucky, but many times you will just lose a model and then lose the DPS race.



There are tons of maps were buildings are unavoidable, and the Flak HT damages houses far, far faster than a Puma will, telling a person to get a Puma to counter buildings is insane.



Shreks barely damage houses at all, as do all forms of infantry based AT thanks to the garrison revamp after WFA.



Again, pure bullshit about game mechanic.

GrW43 is able to kill Rifle squad in wooden building in 1:14 (building collapses - not killing squad inside - 2 models died with collapse).

ISG can do same thing in 1:28. 2 Models left which died with collapse.

RNG involved cause depends where shells will land but still, bullshit decetor is needed
19 Mar 2015, 16:42 PM
#142
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1




Again, pure bullshit about game mechanic.

GrW43 is able to kill Rifle squad in wooden building in 1:14 (building collapses - not killing squad inside - 2 models died with collapse).

ISG can do same thing in 1:28. 2 Models left which died with collapse.

RNG involved cause depends where shells will land but still, bullshit decetor is needed


lol 1 minute 28 seconds to kill a building, his riflemen are just going to sit there and he's not going to push your ISG. And wooden buildings don't comprise all the buildings in the game either.

Why are you throwing the bullshit flag when the ISG is easily the worst OKW unit, it can't do what it's supposed to: function as a indirect fire unit.

19 Mar 2015, 16:54 PM
#143
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



lol 1 minute 28 seconds to kill a building, his riflemen are just going to sit there and he's not going to push your ISG. And wooden buildings don't comprise all the buildings in the game either.

Why are you throwing the bullshit flag when the ISG is easily the worst OKW unit, it can't do what it's supposed to: function as a indirect fire unit.




You said ISG is not able to damage buildings but it is - so it's quite simple - bullshit.
I takes 15secs longer than GrW34 but still.


And it can.
In a replay you posted some time ago, 2 ISGs were able to deal more damage than 2 GrW34s through entire game.
19 Mar 2015, 16:56 PM
#144
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3


lol 1 minute 28 seconds to kill a building, his riflemen are just going to sit there and he's not going to push your ISG. And wooden buildings don't comprise all the buildings in the game either.

Why are you throwing the bullshit flag when the ISG is easily the worst OKW unit, it can't do what it's supposed to: function as a indirect fire unit.


The ISG suffers the same fate as the Stuart, in an attempt to make a multi purpose unit, the main purpose of the unit is too weak.
The vet 1 ability is crap and in all my games I never managed to destroy a single vehcile with it.
If it would work like a AT gun it would be much more useful.
19 Mar 2015, 17:02 PM
#145
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1




You said ISG is not able to damage buildings but it is - so it's quite simple - bullshit.
I takes 15secs longer than GrW34 but still.


And it can.
In a replay you posted some time ago, 2 ISGs were able to deal more damage than 2 GrW34s through entire game.


Damage buildings well, especially the stone buildings.

2 ISG's did more damage because they were doing direct fire, and we killed the Ostheer mortars at the first half of the game while the ISG's stuck around.

The biggest problem is that versus large hardy buildings the ISG is expensive, and it's vet only improves the barrage which is bleh.

19 Mar 2015, 17:13 PM
#146
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Damage buildings well, especially the stone buildings.

2 ISG's did more damage because they were doing direct fire, and we killed the Ostheer mortars at the first half of the game while the ISG's stuck around.

The biggest problem is that versus large hardy buildings the ISG is expensive, and it's vet only improves the barrage which is bleh.



Stone buildings.

It takes 2:08 to wipe Rifles inside when used GwR and 2:29 for ISG.
Damages done to the building are quite similar althout GrW hit with all shells while ISG missed 2 of them.

And it does not matter if you killed them. They were recrewed 8 times and were dealing damage the same time like ISG - still less than 1k AI damage.
19 Mar 2015, 17:19 PM
#147
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6251 | Subs: 1

There are tons of maps were buildings are unavoidable, and the Flak HT damages houses far, far faster than a Puma will, telling a person to get a Puma to counter buildings is insane.


I guess he comes from the patch where the Puma was the best building cleaner.
19 Mar 2015, 17:21 PM
#148
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Stone buildings.

It takes 2:08 to wipe Rifles inside when used GwR and 2:29 for ISG.
Damages done to the building are quite similar althout GrW hit with all shells while ISG missed 2 of them.

And it does not matter if you killed them. They were recrewed 8 times and were dealing damage the same time like ISG - still less than 1k AI damage.


To bad the ISG is 480 MP, which is literally double the cost of the mortar, and a dead mortar cannot shoot.

2:29 for killing a building is pathetic for double the cost of a mortar, you would think that that it would be twice as effective, but nope :S
19 Mar 2015, 17:22 PM
#149
avatar of Remi

Posts: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2015, 10:25 AMKatitof

Except grenades, ISG, Stuka, infiltration nades and AA HT.
Not all factions are supposed to have all the tools.
It just happens that OKW already have most of them anyway.


None of those are early game and building a stuka is suicide, flamers on Sturms is also historical
19 Mar 2015, 17:22 PM
#150
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



To bad the ISG is 480 MP, which is literally double the cost of the mortar, and a dead mortar cannot shoot.

2:29 for killing a building is pathetic for double the cost of a mortar, you would think that that it would be twice as effective, but nope :S


And you can find in my posts in this thread that it should be cheaper.
19 Mar 2015, 17:23 PM
#151
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



And you can find in my posts in this thread that it should be cheaper.


No, OKW needs stuff to spend MP on, it should be more effective for it's price. Not just reduced down.
19 Mar 2015, 17:25 PM
#152
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



No, OKW needs stuff to spend MP on, it should be more effective for it's price. Not just reduced down.


But you can't get non-doc 120mm.
19 Mar 2015, 17:32 PM
#153
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



But you can't get non-doc 120mm.


Good thing it's a field howitzer and not a mortar? You understand the difference yes?
19 Mar 2015, 17:34 PM
#154
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Good thing it's a field howitzer and not a mortar? You understand the difference yes?


You don't understand.
It should be cheaper cause none faction should get non-doc unit with similar effectiveness to 120mm.

It does not matter if it is mortart or field gun. It's about effectiveness.
19 Mar 2015, 17:43 PM
#155
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



You don't understand.
It should be cheaper cause none faction should get non-doc unit with similar effectiveness to 120mm.

It does not matter if it is mortart or field gun. It's about effectiveness.


Wait don't you argue stock units need to be better to compete with call ins? OKW only has 2 indirect fire units in the game commander or not ;)
19 Mar 2015, 17:50 PM
#156
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Wait don't you argue stock units need to be better to compete with call ins?
OKW only has 2 indirect fire units in the game commander or not ;)


And where you get this from? Cause Ive never said something like this.

And OKW does not need to have everything the best which is true in fact, except for arty.
19 Mar 2015, 17:51 PM
#157
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3087 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2015, 15:36 PMChiro
infiltration grenades are the only tool to really clear houses but only doctrinal - and they are overkill

10 munitions to guarantee the enemy's not using the building against most buildings after you grenade it is overkill? I certainly don't go "My 30/45 munitions grenade didn't kill off the entire squad inside or level the building, good thing the venture wasn't a waste" while playing the other factions.

Compare to the Molotov, which is a short-ranged piece of trash frequently relying on the squad also spend 10 munitions on Oorah! with a long animation that depends RNG or the enemy totally not noticing it was thrown for much longer than the other grenades which renders it basically only especially useful against buildings...and it costs 5 more munitions.
19 Mar 2015, 17:52 PM
#158
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



And where you get this from? Cause Ive never said something like this.

And OKW does not need to have everything the best which is true in fact, except for arty.


You constantly say you shouldn't need doctrinal units to counter stock units.

OKW doesn't have everything the best, but it shouldn't have literally nothing in some area's.

No reason the ISG should have to be overpriced garbage.
19 Mar 2015, 17:55 PM
#159
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



You constantly say you shouldn't need doctrinal units to counter stock units.

OKW doesn't have everything the best, but it shouldn't have literally nothing in some area's.

No reason the ISG should have to be overpriced garbage.


That's why it should be cheaper instead of making it similar to 120mm.


Best AI inf - Obers.
best AT inf - Volks.
Best engi - SP.
Best mobile arty - Stuka.
Best light tank - T70 or Luchs.
Best teching - OKW.
Best heavy tank - KT
Best heavy TD - JT
and on..
and on..

Soviets are better in terms of assault guns and arty.
19 Mar 2015, 17:57 PM
#160
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



That's why it should be cheaper instead of making it similar to 120mm.


Best AI inf - Obers.
best AT inf - Volks.
Best engi - SP.
Best mobile arty - Stuka.
Best light tank - T70 or Luchs.
Best teching - OKW.
Best heavy tank - KT
Best heavy TD - JT
and on..
and on..

Soviets are better in terms of assault guns and arty.


Uh, there are only 2 heavy TD's in the game, only 3 heavy tanks in the game, SP's aren't engineers and cost far more, Volks are the worst starting infantry in the game...

All these things cost more than what you are comparing them to, again:

More expensive units are better then less expensive units; more at 11.
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