Jackson needs a slight buff
10 Jan 2015, 12:07 PM
#21
1 
Posts: 551
Yeah reduce stuka health then
10 Jan 2015, 12:25 PM
#22
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
The biggest problem M36 - pathfinding.
I command him to do reverse, it starts is turned in place.
The result - Jackson is dead. Disgusting.
I command him to do reverse, it starts is turned in place.
The result - Jackson is dead. Disgusting.
10 Jan 2015, 14:31 PM
#23
Posts: 1217
I can only comment form the receiving end of the Jackson as I don´t own WFA. But I actually think its incredibly overpowered.
Two of them lock down any sort of Ostheer armor. Tigers and especially Panzer IVs are hopelessly outclassed. Your best bet is a Panther, which also tends to end up in a suicidal charge. I´m tired of seeing M36s +.30 cal blobs every game.
Decrease the damage and increase the penetration and health and I´m good.
Annihilating Panzer IVs and Tigers with 3 hits or 5 hits respectively is bad though.
You can´t have 240 dmg, 60 range, decent mobility on a vehicle and still demand above average penetration.
Two of them lock down any sort of Ostheer armor. Tigers and especially Panzer IVs are hopelessly outclassed. Your best bet is a Panther, which also tends to end up in a suicidal charge. I´m tired of seeing M36s +.30 cal blobs every game.
Decrease the damage and increase the penetration and health and I´m good.
Annihilating Panzer IVs and Tigers with 3 hits or 5 hits respectively is bad though.
You can´t have 240 dmg, 60 range, decent mobility on a vehicle and still demand above average penetration.
10 Jan 2015, 14:36 PM
#24
Posts: 935
give 700 damage and splash so it would insta win.
10 Jan 2015, 14:47 PM
#25
Posts: 1701
I can only comment form the receiving end of the Jackson as I don´t own WFA. But I actually think its incredibly overpowered.
Two of them lock down any sort of Ostheer armor. Tigers and especially Panzer IVs are hopelessly outclassed. Your best bet is a Panther, which also tends to end up in a suicidal charge. I´m tired of seeing M36s +.30 cal blobs every game.
Decrease the damage and increase the penetration and health and I´m good.
Annihilating Panzer IVs and Tigers with 3 hits or 5 hits respectively is bad though.
You can´t have 240 dmg, 60 range, decent mobility on a vehicle and still demand above average penetration.
+1, Finally someone.
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10 Jan 2015, 15:09 PM
#26
Posts: 655
Permanently BannedTo everyone making the argument that Jackson is OP relative to Ostheer, that's just because Ostheer sucks and needs buffs in general which most players are aware of.
The reason (I think) many people believe Jackson needs a buff is it's performance vs OKW. Like Pussyeater said, it can't even 1 shot a Stuka zu Fuss, but that is a problem with the Stuka zu Fuss itself, not the Jackson. I think OKW and USF players alike would be comfortable with a nerf to the Stuka's HP (240) and perhaps a small fuel decrease so they don't lose viability despite this new vulnerability.
The way the Jackson handles the KT is a different story, but let's just say that after playing a match last evening where I experienced 5 bounces in a row on it's frontal armor after microing hard to kite it, I am very unimpressed.
The reason (I think) many people believe Jackson needs a buff is it's performance vs OKW. Like Pussyeater said, it can't even 1 shot a Stuka zu Fuss, but that is a problem with the Stuka zu Fuss itself, not the Jackson. I think OKW and USF players alike would be comfortable with a nerf to the Stuka's HP (240) and perhaps a small fuel decrease so they don't lose viability despite this new vulnerability.
The way the Jackson handles the KT is a different story, but let's just say that after playing a match last evening where I experienced 5 bounces in a row on it's frontal armor after microing hard to kite it, I am very unimpressed.
A Fallen Scrub
10 Jan 2015, 15:36 PM
#27
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Don't nerf Stuka health, it costs the same as a medium tank!
Puma have 400hp.
More expensive Katiusha got 160.
Your argument is invalid, cost is in no way any indicator of durability.
Its long range mobile artillery.
Being at long range and being mobile is its survivability.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 Jan 2015, 17:38 PM
#28
Posts: 1217
To everyone making the argument that Jackson is OP relative to Ostheer, that's just because Ostheer sucks and needs buffs in general which most players are aware of.This pretty much backs up my suggestion to decrease the damage and increase penetration of the Jackson. This way it will penetrate the heavy OKW tanks more consistently and on the other hand not three-shot Panzer IVs and totally negate StuGs.
The reason (I think) many people believe Jackson needs a buff is it's performance vs OKW.
The way the Jackson handles the KT is a different story, but let's just say that after playing a match last evening where I experienced 5 bounces in a row on it's frontal armor after microing hard to kite it, I am very unimpressed.
10 Jan 2015, 17:51 PM
#29
Posts: 41
meanwhile katyushas can be destroyed by even small arms fire
10 Jan 2015, 21:00 PM
#30
Posts: 598
Puma have 400hp.
More expensive Katiusha got 160.
Your argument is invalid, cost is in no way any indicator of durability.
Katyusha is an artillery piece, Puma is a Armored vehicle. They have two different jobs so they can't be compared. However, with the OKW getting a Stuka can severly delay you in teching because it's 100 fuel + the OKW fuel income decrease and you're still nowhere near access to any tanks which means OKW don't have much to defend their Stukas compared to what the Soviets might have which is why I brought this up.
Also, the Stuka costs more than the Soviet T34s while the Puma costs roughly the same as the Katyushas. The Puma's gun also takes two hits to kill a Katyusha.
10 Jan 2015, 21:03 PM
#31
Posts: 640
Or maybe just make the Stuka weaker in terms of health, it's ridiculously durable compared to other mobile arty in the game. The Jackson is fine as it is
10 Jan 2015, 22:01 PM
#32
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Katyusha is an artillery piece, Puma is a Armored vehicle. They have two different jobs so they can't be compared. However, with the OKW getting a Stuka can severly delay you in teching because it's 100 fuel + the OKW fuel income decrease and you're still nowhere near access to any tanks which means OKW don't have much to defend their Stukas compared to what the Soviets might have which is why I brought this up.
Even more reason why stuka should get HP nerf.
Also, the Stuka costs more than the Soviet T34s while the Puma costs roughly the same as the Katyushas. The Puma's gun also takes two hits to kill a Katyusha.
Even if we include fuel penalty, getting stuka is still almost twice as cheap as getting T34.
Getting Katiusha is ~1.7(CBA to get real value, calculate it yourself, its simple math and I have too high fever to do it) more expensive then getting stuka.
And lets go with the survivability further, it takes 4 Su-76 shots to kill stuka. Even more imbalanced now compared to puma.
There is not a single valid reason why stuka should keep 320 hp. Its way too much, destroying it is way too hard. All other arty when caught by surprise is DEAD, stuka backs up while lolling.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 Jan 2015, 22:54 PM
#33
Posts: 4928
To everyone making the argument that Jackson is OP relative to Ostheer, that's just because Ostheer sucks and needs buffs in general which most players are aware of.
So the solution to Jackson damage nullifying Ost T3 is to buff Ost T3, and the only buff that would help against high damage is high health. Does this mean we're gonna pave the way for the 800HP Panzer IV?
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
10 Jan 2015, 23:33 PM
#34
Posts: 2053
Decrease the damage and increase the penetration and health and I´m good.
For the sake of everything, i think that would be best. USF kind of needs something to combat bigger tanks since the faction kind of has no alternatives - but that doesnt mean it has to negate enemy medium armor and further encourage the building of bigger tanks when reliable medium tanks and the like simply get vaporized.
Balance and order before radical design choices. If we could...
11 Jan 2015, 00:36 AM
#35
Posts: 655
Permanently Banned
So the solution to Jackson damage nullifying Ost T3 is to buff Ost T3, and the only buff that would help against high damage is high health. Does this mean we're gonna pave the way for the 800HP Panzer IV?
That isn't the solution and I didn't say it was. I think once the Jackson vs OKW issue is fixed we can look at how to balance it relative to Ostheer. Just my opinion though.
A Fallen Scrub
11 Jan 2015, 01:26 AM
#36
Posts: 4928
That isn't the solution and I didn't say it was. I think once the Jackson vs OKW issue is fixed we can look at how to balance it relative to Ostheer. Just my opinion though.
I'm just saying, no matter how you fix it vs OKW, as long as it does 240 damage with a decent rate of fire, and Ostheer T3 has 400 - 640 HP units, it won't mesh well. Either M36 damage or ROF would need to be lowered, or T3 units need a health increase, which is not the desirable outcome.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
11 Jan 2015, 01:39 AM
#37
Posts: 4928
Ignore this, my internet is shitting itself. Thank god for flood control 
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
11 Jan 2015, 01:53 AM
#38
Posts: 219
That isn't the solution and I didn't say it was. I think once the Jackson vs OKW issue is fixed we can look at how to balance it relative to Ostheer. Just my opinion though.
The damage is too high, but it needs a pen buff, we all know that, but how it is fine vs OKW? Anything below the panther can be dealt with AT cannons, zookas or a sherman, the 1-2 jacksons would be the answer vs KT and panthers, and against those it retains the problem that it barely ever penetrates, although if you are lucky with RNG they will go down rather quickly.
So again, it has no reason to have that high damage, and it doesn't have any reason to have that low pen, the rest of the problem in the USF and OKW match up lies mostly in the obersoldaten and vet4-5 volks but that's a different issue to fix, nothing to do with having a tank that 3 shots panzer4s and almost 4 shots tigers.
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11 Jan 2015, 01:57 AM
#39
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
I think the larger problem here has been hit upon. Jackson is completely dominant against Wehr, not particularly useful against OKW, and definitely under performing vs. heavy armor.
However, buffing Jackson makes it completely eliminate Wehr T3. On the other hand, without something bigger and better than Shermans and Jacksons it is very hard to balance US in team games.
Maybe place the Wolverine in place of Jackson and buff it slightly. Then put Jackson behind some wall/hurdle and buff it. This allows Ost T3 to still exist, makes the Jackson a potent late game option, but with a narrow purpose. Fast teching to Jackson to lock out T3 is not cost effective, but the US would have a heavy AT unit.
However, buffing Jackson makes it completely eliminate Wehr T3. On the other hand, without something bigger and better than Shermans and Jacksons it is very hard to balance US in team games.
Maybe place the Wolverine in place of Jackson and buff it slightly. Then put Jackson behind some wall/hurdle and buff it. This allows Ost T3 to still exist, makes the Jackson a potent late game option, but with a narrow purpose. Fast teching to Jackson to lock out T3 is not cost effective, but the US would have a heavy AT unit.
11 Jan 2015, 03:08 AM
#40
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Bannedgive us pershing.
But, u must have all tiers unlocked to use
But, u must have all tiers unlocked to use
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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