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Panzer II Luchs

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17 Dec 2014, 23:33 PM
#81
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

yeah, what makes the lusch so good is a combination of timing and AT options available to the enemy, which all boils down to poor faction design.
17 Dec 2014, 23:58 PM
#82
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Dec 2014, 22:24 PMKatitof
Show me a single situation where self repair made any difference.
Year ago it could repair single faust damage, now its useless waste of ammo.

There is no reason why Luchs would be more durable then any of the two, it had LEAST armor and worst armament out of the three, yet here its cheapest and most efficient in its role.


Self-repair is still a utility that other vehicles don't have, even if it's not good in the current meta. It also has recon mode. Also the Luchs does have the lowest armour of the 3, and the armament is worse, it's just automatic while the other two are not. I would rather the T-70 get a slight cost decrease rather than a significant survivability increase.
18 Dec 2014, 00:20 AM
#83
avatar of Strummingbird
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 950

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Dec 2014, 22:24 PMKatitof


Show me a single situation where self repair made any difference.
Year ago it could repair single faust damage, now its useless waste of ammo.


I've been playing around with the self-repair ability and I find it's actually very very useful. Lots of times T70s end up in 'guaranteed death' positions- say you run into a raketen in a house, it takes a first shot, and you can't reverse away in time to avoid the second shot. If you hit the self-repair it will almost always have enough time to get out of the arc of any AT gun. Same applies if you run into three shreck squads- as long as the shrecks don't hit within a couple of seconds of each other you'll be able to turn around and GTFO with a sliver of health. 70 munitions to save your T70 is a bargain, more people should consider using the ability instead of writing it off.

Just as an example, I believe there was a tournament game on Faymonville where Luvnest's T70 went balls deep and ended up catching two raketen shots and dying, one on the way in, one just as it was escaping the arc. Self-repair would've saved it.
18 Dec 2014, 01:17 AM
#84
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

Luchs is easy to counter just get a t34 or sherman they will stop it easily. Though people don't want to build t34s and ptrs/bazookas suck for stalling if you avoid this

I think its nice we have an effective light tank that actually is used in the game. Pls buff at weapons before looking at the luchs
18 Dec 2014, 02:17 AM
#85
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053


70 munitions to save your T70 is a bargain, more people should consider using the ability instead of writing it off.


When we have a cheaper blitz ability saving panthers, yes, the t70's self repair can easily be written off as bad. Its 70 munitions and wont heal the entire tank... :/
18 Dec 2014, 02:25 AM
#86
avatar of Strummingbird
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 950


When we have a cheaper blitz ability saving panthers, yes, the t70's self repair can easily be written off as bad. Its 70 munitions and wont heal the entire tank... :/


Never said it was blitz/smoke/APCR-level good, just that it certainly isn't useless like people seem to think. Neither is it a vet ability like Blitz, which you didn't take into consideration
18 Dec 2014, 02:34 AM
#87
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053



Neither is it a vet ability like Blitz, which you didn't take into consideration


I dont understand. Blitz saves expensive tanks for a cheap price - of course thats useful.

Anyways, it is a relatively redundant ability since so what you activate repair - there is still the chance it will get hit again and die, losing you munitions and the tank. It is not a cost effective ability (in which i dont mind it being that way since the t70 does a million other useful things), but there is no point trying to save a tank that you know will have to die to bigger fish/tanks. Theoretically speaking, anything can be useful.
18 Dec 2014, 02:42 AM
#88
avatar of Strummingbird
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 950


Anyways, it is a relatively redundant ability since so what you activate repair - there is still the chance it will get hit again and die, losing you munitions and the tank.


I don't think you understand- it guarantees, mathematically, the survival of a T70 that would otherwise die. There's no chance involved.

Take a T70 that drives into a Pak. It takes a shot, 160HP left. It reverses and the pak takes another shot. It dies.

Now if it took the first shot, and you hit self-repair, you have 3 seconds worth of healing by the time the second shot hit. There's no way it can die on the second shot. At which point you should be well on your way out of there- if you sit in front of a pak for 7-8 whole seconds after the first shot and die to the third hit that's just a screw-up on your part.
18 Dec 2014, 02:49 AM
#89
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053



I don't think you understand- it guarantees, mathematically, the survival of a T70 that would otherwise die. There's no chance involved.

Take a T70 that drives into a Pak. It takes a shot, 160HP left. It reverses and takes another shot. It dies.

Now if it took the first shot, and you hit self-repair, you have 3 seconds worth of healing by the time the second shot hit. There's no way it can die on the second shot. At which point you should be well on your way out of there- if you sit in front of a pak for 7-8 whole seconds after the first shot and die to the third hit that's just a screw-up on your part.


Given that it is a suitable time to use it, given that someone remembers to use it, and given that there is nothing around to strike that last extra blow - this rarely comes into play. Anyone couldnt care less about self-repair's usefulness. Its just there. As for the enemy, i dont think he'll like that you escaped and will try his best for your 70 munitions to be a waste.

What's the point? We all can see how useful self repair is given how much it is not used.
18 Dec 2014, 02:59 AM
#90
avatar of Strummingbird
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Posts: 950

Given that it is a suitable time to use it, given that someone remembers to use it, and given that there is nothing around to strike that last extra blow - this rarely comes into play.


This is why arguing on the forums is completely pointless- it's just theory and more theory.

I'm getting the impression you haven't used self-repair in any length of time in the first place ( do correct me if I'm wrong), nor realized that T70 vs paks/raks with nothing mobile on the axis side to follow up is a common scenario in 1v1 (that being exactly the situation when you want the T70 to be out).

Go watch the tournament games where the T70 was used (Luvnest used them in many of his Soviet games) and you'll see what I mean. Or, alternatively, play a couple 1v1s and actually try it out for yourself.

Edit- just checked your card- 4v4 is a different situation altogether, and seems to be the mode you primarily play. In which case my arguments may not be relevant.
18 Dec 2014, 04:59 AM
#91
avatar of Romeo
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Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

I think the luchs is about right for its cost. Other light tanks should be elevated to its level or get cost reductions.
18 Dec 2014, 06:05 AM
#92
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3537 | Subs: 2

y does no one use zooks as usf. It punished okw HARD

Luchs cant do anything if u have double zooks on every other squad. same goes for puma. since luchs is mostly only good vs infantry. if ur infantry hard counter it. OKW player has wasted his fuel

Zooks also handle okw tier buildings very well.


I think the thought process goes something like:

Observation: Zooks are bad compared to shreks

Conclusion: Therefore I won't get them

Result: My rifles get screwed by even the lightest armour


The Observation is correct, but is only appropriate for Forum Warring about Balance

In game you don't have a choice between Zooks and Shreks, your choice is between Zooks or nothing

If you chose nothing then you deserve everything that happens to you as a result
18 Dec 2014, 06:12 AM
#93
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

so all this talk about self repair make it seem like you're not stuck in one place. is it true that you can keep moving while using it? i've always been under the opposite impression.
18 Dec 2014, 07:36 AM
#94
avatar of Sarantini
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Donator 22

Posts: 2181

so all this talk about self repair make it seem like you're not stuck in one place. is it true that you can keep moving while using it? i've always been under the opposite impression.

The doctrinal crew repair makes you unable to move while you can still move with the t70 repair
The doctrinal repair makes you unable to move but with the t-70 specific repair you can still move
18 Dec 2014, 08:07 AM
#95
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

I think Luchs it's ok, but at least for soviets the pityful state on which guards are currently makes Luchs much more fearsome.
ZiS is not a reliable counter to them and T3 is not a good option against current OKW volks blobs.

18 Dec 2014, 08:28 AM
#96
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

Besides maybe a to high health value, Luchs it's ok as it is. Remember anything OKW builds that involves fuel, it involves an amount of risk. I often prefer to preserve fuel for the Panther / KT / command Panther then investing fuel in a unit whose role can be performed by obersoldaten.
18 Dec 2014, 08:33 AM
#97
avatar of BlackKorp

Posts: 964 | Subs: 2

i´ve got just one simple question "luchs op" are you damn serious? The other choice is to build obers, next thread will have the name "obers pls nerv" after that will happen u will find another unit that preforms good to blame about, so please stop it!
18 Dec 2014, 08:39 AM
#98
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2816

This is solely my opinion, so don't go crazy about it :).

IMO, there is no single light tank that pose such a danger like the Luchs does.
If the luchs comes out, you have to retreat cause you know you will lose that squad.
It's quick on it's feet, it fires like a freakin' Ostwind and it's very strong compared to other light tanks. It's in every way superior to other light tanks and in the hands of a skilled player it's just a wrecking ball.

Again, my opinion.

(I'm surprised so many of you think it's ok, I might be very wrong than :) )

i´ve got just one simple question "luchs op" are you damn serious? The other choice is to build obers, next thread will have the name "obers pls nerv" after that will happen u will find another unit that preforms good to blame about, so please stop it!


It's a poll with different options man.
18 Dec 2014, 09:42 AM
#99
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

i´ve got just one simple question "luchs op" are you damn serious? The other choice is to build obers, next thread will have the name "obers pls nerv" after that will happen u will find another unit that preforms good to blame about, so please stop it!


there was a several hundred post thread on that very subject already.
18 Dec 2014, 09:52 AM
#100
avatar of pantherswag

Posts: 231

Luchs and T70 seem to be in pretty good positions. Luchs is probably a little better at killing infantry, but T70 can cap and recon which increases its utility quite a lot. I think the stuart is supposed to have some light AT utility with its abilities, but they never seem to work like they're supposed to, and it costs too much fuel to ever be worth it long term.
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