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B-4 Population Problem

7 Oct 2014, 16:39 PM
#1
avatar of Yossarian

Posts: 70

Team weapons typically have their own population costs. For example, an ML-20 gun costs 11 and its four crews only take up 4 out of total 15 pop cost. On the contrary, a B-4 gun itself costs nothing and each member of its five crews takes up 3 out of 15. I think this is not intended by developers because 3 pop cost (the highest in game as far as I know) for a single model is ridiculous. You can abuse this fact by killing all the crews yourself right after building a B-4 (a single molotov is enough) and retaking it with conscripts. Thus it is possible to use five B-4 guns with the same upkeep of a single ML-20 gun.
7 Oct 2014, 16:44 PM
#2
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

I thought you can decrew any weapon and replace it with the lowest popcap squad to create low popcap disturbance. This goes with all buildable crewed weapons, not only the B-4. You COULD make crew weapons act as vehicles with a set popcap when captured, but then imagine all the shock/obersoldaten wielding crewed weapons...
7 Oct 2014, 17:02 PM
#3
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

I thought you can decrew any weapon and replace it with the lowest popcap squad to create low popcap disturbance. This goes with all buildable crewed weapons, not only the B-4. You COULD make crew weapons act as vehicles with a set popcap when captured, but then imagine all the shock/obersoldaten wielding crewed weapons...

support weapons already have a pop cost
7 Oct 2014, 17:11 PM
#4
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053


support weapons already have a pop cost


...

But for static-built weapons other than the B-4, i thought you could get away with lower popcap by replacing the crew...
7 Oct 2014, 23:11 PM
#5
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

You can abuse this fact by killing all the crews yourself right after building a B-4 (a single molotov is enough) and retaking it with conscripts. Thus it is possible to use five B-4 guns with the same upkeep of a single ML-20 gun.


Thus it is possible to use five B-4 guns with the same upkeep of a single ML-20 gun.


Thus it is possible to use five B-4 guns


five B-4 guns


:huhsign:o_Oo_Oo_O

I did not know this... That is half a tonne of HE per fire cycle.

Let me just go spam and see if it is possible to die out of happiness

Relic don't dare touch that shit for atleast a week.
8 Oct 2014, 08:15 AM
#6
avatar of Yossarian

Posts: 70



...

But for static-built weapons other than the B-4, i thought you could get away with lower popcap by replacing the crew...


This is B-4's unique problem. All other support weapon crews have a low pop cost, mostly 1, so you cannot reduce the upkeep significantly by replacing the crews. (e.g. Replacing 10.5cm leFH 18 crews by three osttruppen soldiers will decrease the pop by mere 1.5.)

8 Oct 2014, 09:00 AM
#7
avatar of y3ivan

Posts: 157

same goes with Maxim. The gun itself cost 3 pop and the crew cost 3. So each men in the maxim squad is 0.5 pop.

Thus, Ostheer or OKW players will never touch it, not only its a 4 men squad it increases the pop cap of the weapon crew
8 Oct 2014, 09:17 AM
#8
avatar of Yossarian

Posts: 70

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Oct 2014, 09:00 AMy3ivan
same goes with Maxim. The gun itself cost 3 pop and the crew cost 3. So each men in the maxim squad is 0.5 pop.


No, each maxim crew costs 1. See http://www.coh2-stats.com/team_weapons
8 Oct 2014, 10:14 AM
#9
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

I'm gonna try to abuse this exploit to death.
Thanks for the info!
8 Oct 2014, 11:26 AM
#10
avatar of Stonethecrow01

Posts: 379

I think I've heard about this problem ... B-4
8 Oct 2014, 11:54 AM
#11
avatar of Yossarian

Posts: 70

I'm gonna try to abuse this exploit to death.
Thanks for the info!


I wanted to stop this abuse :(

To be honest, I tried this method three times in 2v2 recently, won every game then refrained feeling guilty about it. We normally do not build more than two howitzers even with excess manpower because of the 100 pop cap as we need to maintain sufficient mobile army. Operating five howitzers with only 15 pop is certainly game breaking. In fact, only three vetted B-4s were a death sentence to any German heavy tank.
8 Oct 2014, 16:33 PM
#12
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



I wanted to stop this abuse :(

To be honest, I tried this method three times in 2v2 recently, won every game then refrained feeling guilty about it. We normally do not build more than two howitzers even with excess manpower because of the 100 pop cap as we need to maintain sufficient mobile army. Operating five howitzers with only 15 pop is certainly game breaking. In fact, only three vetted B-4s were a death sentence to any German heavy tank.


You need people abusing so they actually fix it. It being for a while, but i didn't knew it was SO LOW.
9 Oct 2014, 03:21 AM
#13
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2



Let me just go spam and see if it is possible to die out of happiness

Relic don't dare touch that shit for atleast a week.


Your shit will be safe

I have it good authority that Relic do not go into the woods
9 Oct 2014, 03:52 AM
#14
avatar of ASneakyFox

Posts: 365

it was hard to read. but the gist of what i got was that the b-4 popcap cost goes to the men that crew it and the gun itself doesnt consume popcap.

The easy fix would be to make it like all other weapons and have the weapon itself consume popcap.

I sense this is more of a bug than a balance issue.
9 Oct 2014, 18:27 PM
#15
avatar of Robotnik

Posts: 39

Well, now all those people who play 4v4 matches have a way to counter all those kings tigers, jagdtigers, and panthers.

I can already imagine it now, the first jagdtiger is spotted, and then suddenly... BOOM... 10 203mm shells rain down upon it

and then they ragequit
10 Oct 2014, 03:13 AM
#16
avatar of Crysack

Posts: 70

They fixed the B-4 rapid-fire bug, right?
10 Oct 2014, 08:55 AM
#17
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

@Crysack Yes they did.
10 Oct 2014, 09:03 AM
#18
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

Well, now all those people who play 4v4 matches have a way to counter all those kings tigers, jagdtigers, and panthers.

I can already imagine it now, the first jagdtiger is spotted, and then suddenly... BOOM... 10 203mm shells rain down upon it

and then they ragequit


A single 3 Vet B-4 doing precision strike has a good chance to instawipe a Jagdlol. Getting two pens with jacksons/SU-85 and a precision strike right on the KT.. This kill the KT.

No need for 5, even two is alot.
10 Oct 2014, 21:55 PM
#19
avatar of zingfreelancer

Posts: 42



:huhsign:o_Oo_Oo_O

I did not know this... That is half a tonne of HE per fire cycle.

Let me just go spam and see if it is possible to die out of happiness

Relic don't dare touch that shit for atleast a week.


Almost made me fire up the game again, abusing Axis players with B4 always such a pleasure.
11 Oct 2014, 01:43 AM
#20
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Too bad the B-4 is one of the most RNG units in the game.

One shot, very strong, 1/5 chance to hit :P
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