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American off-map abilities need rework

4 Aug 2014, 18:29 PM
#1
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

Let's go through the US off-map abilities.

The 240mm barrage is basically useless, and absurdly overpriced for what you get. The cool sound effects are gone too.

The P-47 air strike is awesome... when it actually works. Half the time it shoots a building or the ground. In COH you could control your planes' angle of attack. Now you have no such control, and even an air strike against a stationary panther may do zero or negligible damage because of how narrow it is. So too expensive for how unreliable it is.

The 150mm barrage is way too good by comparison. It falls the fastest and most accurately, is cheaper than the above, stuns vehicles and does massive damage. It can destroy an OKW truck at full health with a little luck. Usually you'll need to hit it with one or two shots from an AT weapon of your choice.

Time on target barrage is almost just right, but takes a bit too long to arrive.

Major artillery is a total joke. It's the cheapest artillery but also completely useless. It drops three inaccurate shells. At vet two it drops five instead, making it... still useless.

I&R pathfinder artillery is actually pretty good. I think it could be better though.

So here are my suggestions:

240mm should not give warning smoke (but it SHOULD get its sound effects back so the enemy can hear it coming, similar to the V1 from CoH). That will somewhat make up for its ridiculously large spread by leaving the enemy uncertain where exactly it is centered. I think it should be cheaper too, considering only the first two shells are likely to actually do anything.

P-47 needs to be a little more accurate. I'd also really like to control angle of attack to avoid frustration with buildings and terrain but I know that's basically asking for a completely different ability.

Switch the effectiveness of the 150mm barrage and the I&R pathfinder barrage. The pathfinder barrage requires more skill to drop on an enemy truck than a simple call-in. It also requires the recon commander, which is not all that great so it could use a small buff.

Major artillery just needs to be pinpoint accurate if it's going to only drop three shells. It needs to fall a little faster too. Ideally if they see the smoke immediately they should be able to safely reposition. If they see it a second late, they should be able to retreat without losing any full squads. They should not be able to sit still and take zero casualties.

Time on target just needs to fall a little faster.
4 Aug 2014, 18:32 PM
#2
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

Good post, I just wish relic would pay attention to such feedback.
4 Aug 2014, 18:39 PM
#3
avatar of Steiner500

Posts: 183

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2014, 18:29 PMRomeo
Let's go through the US off-map abilities.

The 240mm barrage is basically useless, and absurdly overpriced for what you get. The cool sound effects are gone too.

The P-47 air strike is awesome... when it actually works. Half the time it shoots a building or the ground. In COH you could control your planes' angle of attack. Now you have no such control, and even an air strike against a stationary panther may do zero or negligible damage because of how narrow it is. So too expensive for how unreliable it is.

The 150mm barrage is way too good by comparison. It falls the fastest and most accurately, is cheaper than the above, stuns vehicles and does massive damage. It can destroy an OKW truck at full health with a little luck. Usually you'll need to hit it with one or two shots from an AT weapon of your choice.

Time on target barrage is almost just right, but takes a bit too long to arrive.

Major artillery is a total joke. It's the cheapest artillery but also completely useless. It drops three inaccurate shells. At vet two it drops five instead, making it... still useless.

I&R pathfinder artillery is actually pretty good. I think it could be better though.

So here are my suggestions:

240mm should not give warning smoke (but it SHOULD get its sound effects back so the enemy can hear it coming, similar to the V1 from CoH). That will somewhat make up for its ridiculously large spread by leaving the enemy uncertain where exactly it is centered. I think it should be cheaper too, considering only the first two shells are likely to actually do anything.

P-47 needs to be a little more accurate. I'd also really like to control angle of attack to avoid frustration with buildings and terrain but I know that's basically asking for a completely different ability.

Switch the effectiveness of the 150mm barrage and the I&R pathfinder barrage. The pathfinder barrage requires more skill to drop on an enemy truck than a simple call-in. It also requires the recon commander, which is not all that great so it could use a small buff.

Major artillery just needs to be pinpoint accurate if it's going to only drop three shells. It needs to fall a little faster too. Ideally if they see the smoke immediately they should be able to safely reposition. If they see it a second late, they should be able to retreat without losing any full squads. They should not be able to sit still and take zero casualties.

Time on target just needs to fall a little faster.

Suer Posting,

I hope it will be heard. U are right!!!
4 Aug 2014, 22:02 PM
#4
avatar of FestiveLongJohns
Patrion 15

Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2

My biggest issue is the cheese strat of destroying OKW trucks w/ the 150 mm barrage.

Your analysis here is spot on.
5 Aug 2014, 00:01 AM
#5
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 656

Great suggestions!
5 Aug 2014, 00:10 AM
#6
avatar of Strummingbird
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 952

Suggestions sound good, except that tying the 155mm bombardment to pathfinders would allow the player to call in as many strikes as he has pathfinders (and if he has munitions)... not so relevant in 1v1s, maybe, but in team games there's probably some cheesy way to exploit this.

Also maybe the Major artillery should get more and more accurate and with less and less delay the closer he is to the target spot, to add an element of risk- reward... It would also allow you to heroically sacrifice the major by running right into a blob of enemy units and instantly calling arty down on his own head. It would make for some pretty funny strategies, I'd think :D
5 Aug 2014, 00:14 AM
#7
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

1. 240 mm

They should revert it to how it was. It was pretty good before.

2. p47
P47 is crap, I agree. If it doesn't get shot down by OKW, it's still way too expensive.

3. 150mm barrage
Yeah, this one needs some tweaks.

4. Major
I dunno, it scales with vet and does a decent job. Maybe a cost reduction is all that is needed here. Or a shorter delay.

5. I&R pathfinder arty is amazing. It's very, very accurate.



I'm not sure if faster falling arty is necessary, but I'm not against it. I tend to view arty as a "Don't put any units in this area" button rather than a killing button. That's why I'm a fan of the old 240 mm and railway arty. A long barrage deters my opponent from positioning units in the area and lets me position my troops in stronger positions.
5 Aug 2014, 00:48 AM
#8
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

Major artillery: 6 shells instead of 3.
5 Aug 2014, 00:50 AM
#9
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

the p47 may be unreliable, but i wouldnt say its crap. it cant practically kill a tiger in a single pass depending how many shots hit. just like all other strafes, its also undodgeable. id be a little worried about making that too spammable or buffing it.

im all for making it more reliable, but it shouldnt reliably kill a heavy tank in 1 click. if its going to be reliable, it needs to be weaker.
5 Aug 2014, 01:36 AM
#10
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

White phospherous barrage is kind of interesting. It's very cheap (130mun) but it seems like the incendiary effect cannot kill units. It often gets them down to 1hp and stops doing damage, even while it's doing damage to other units next to them. If you actually drop it on already critically wounded models, they seem to die during the barrage, but not from the incend damage of the smoke. I think it's the only ability in the game like that.
5 Aug 2014, 01:54 AM
#11
avatar of astro_zombie

Posts: 123

White phospherous barrage is kind of interesting. It's very cheap (130mun) but it seems like the incendiary effect cannot kill units. It often gets them down to 1hp and stops doing damage, even while it's doing damage to other units next to them. If you actually drop it on already critically wounded models, they seem to die during the barrage, but not from the incend damage of the smoke. I think it's the only ability in the game like that.


Actually this is the only good artillery callin they have. It is extremely useful as area denial.

WP smoke will not kill, that is working as intended. It will leave the units to 1hp in which you should try to kill them, but it will generally force a retreat.

The smoke itself also blocks vision. It is a great area denial and can tip a battle in your favor with the incendiary panic it causes.

It's like a household cleaner! TOUGH ON BLOBS, ANTI-GERM(ans), LEAVES NO HARSH RESIDUE!
5 Aug 2014, 01:57 AM
#12
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

No I know it's good, I make use of it a lot. Although it can be tough to have a unit in position to gun them down on retreat, since the smoke also kind of protects them frontally.
5 Aug 2014, 02:07 AM
#13
avatar of astro_zombie

Posts: 123

Yeah I agree, as I said, the smoke will block fire, good or bad, from going through. You need to decide whether or not you want to be protected and apply AJAX white phosporous cleaner (trademark) with caution.
5 Aug 2014, 03:44 AM
#14
avatar of Volsky

Posts: 344

That phosphorous smoke is intended to go with your troll-blob of Flammenrifles, as flamers rely on crits to kill and a blob of 1 HP enemy units is just begging to get flamer critted en masse.
5 Aug 2014, 04:05 AM
#15
avatar of astro_zombie

Posts: 123

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Aug 2014, 03:44 AMVolsky
That phosphorous smoke is intended to go with your troll-blob of Flammenrifles, as flamers rely on crits to kill and a blob of 1 HP enemy units is just begging to get flamer critted en masse.


How did you come to that conclusion, since the fire will also hurt you, block your LOS and most likely force a retreat if it landed properly. That is just not how it plays out.
5 Aug 2014, 07:31 AM
#16
avatar of Midconflict

Posts: 204

I am game for these changes.
5 Aug 2014, 07:34 AM
#17
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Yes please +1. One thing to note. IR pathfinders arty = time on target artillery barrage.


Only that IR pathfinders barrage costs 140 munitions and only takes 3 seconds to arrive, while ToT barrage takes like 8.
5 Aug 2014, 08:09 AM
#18
avatar of ofield

Posts: 420

Not just the American arty needs rework, but also the okw strikes.
5 Aug 2014, 10:05 AM
#19
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

agree with OP. one thing though.

i tried major's arty twice. first it dropped three rounds like you said. second time, it dropped like five shells: like I&R arty.

may be it's random? or it keeps changing from patch to patch.
5 Aug 2014, 10:07 AM
#20
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

agree with OP. one thing though.

i tried major's arty twice. first it dropped three rounds like you said. second time, it dropped like five shells: like I&R arty.

may be it's random? or it keeps changing from patch to patch.

I'm pretty sure its vet related.
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