Why is this even an issue? PPSH took a HUGE nerf last patch (they used to have the PPSH from single player, which had much higher dps). Adding another, weaker smg to the squad is still not as good as the old PPSH upgrade.
Completely fine as is.
PPSH x3 Aftermath Update
20 Feb 2014, 23:29 PM
#21
Posts: 337
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20 Feb 2014, 23:32 PM
#22
Posts: 1734
Permanently Banned
Why is this even an issue? PPSH took a HUGE nerf last patch (they used to have the PPSH from single player, which had much higher dps). Adding another, weaker smg to the squad is still not as good as the old PPSH upgrade.
Completely fine as is.
Cruzz agrees MVGAME
"I don't need a helmet"
-The guy who really needed a helmet
-The guy who really needed a helmet
20 Feb 2014, 23:52 PM
#23
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
You people do realize that new 3x ppsh deal LESS dps then old 2x which we had for 6+ months and they were fine?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
21 Feb 2014, 00:07 AM
#24
Posts: 308
You people do realize that new 3x ppsh deal LESS dps then old 2x which we had for 6+ months and they were fine?
Indeed.
21 Feb 2014, 02:18 AM
#25
Posts: 409
You people do realize that new 3x ppsh deal LESS dps then old 2x which we had for 6+ months and they were fine?
They weren't fine, hence why they were nerfed. It just wasn't noticeable back then because the LMG42 was also OP as fuck (hence it also got nerfed).
Don't forget the MG42 teams were pretty trololol's back then as well.
Not taking any sides here as I need more post-patch games to consolidate my opinion but just saying people have more valid complaints than you may think.
21 Feb 2014, 02:34 AM
#26
Posts: 680
When people realize they are on a -5, -6 loosingstreak using these commanders they will turn to commanders with a decent lategame. But its good that the commanders with ppsh sees some light again.
21 Feb 2014, 04:00 AM
#27
Posts: 210
OMG, 3 models have ppsh and 3 models have mosim (rifle). You want nerf rifles?
PPSH have 3-4x less dps on mid distance then in close fight. StG is 2-3x better on mid. And G43 eat constripts very easy.
Whine after two days of patch.
Try G43, this is counter ppsh.
+1
Soviet now have Ok upgrade making them beter in the mid/late game and only able get access to ppsh via doctrin at 3cp,which is usually around the 6 min mark maybe even more, AND THIS IS SEEN AS OP lol.
But Ost get lmg's after teching to t2 which comes around 3min mark, is non doctrinal. They get g43 which have a high dps and in grate doctrins. Only draw back is that lmg and g43 have a high price tag (for good reasons)
21 Feb 2014, 05:08 AM
#28
5 
Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2
Why is this even an issue? PPSH took a HUGE nerf last patch (they used to have the PPSH from single player, which had much higher dps). Adding another, weaker smg to the squad is still not as good as the old PPSH upgrade.
Completely fine as is.
Can anyone verify this? I know at some point there was a website with all of the unit stats on it, is that thing still around?
I agree with the sentiment about the G43, they do an excellent job of countering PPSHs when used correctly. I also don't understand the arguments between comparing the LMG and the PPSH. One is a non-commander upgrade(LMG42) and the other is unique to only a few trees, several of which focus on making conscripts the core of your Army(PPSH). Its apples and oranges.
IMO commander abilities should be balanced, but powerful. The fact that the PPSH is tied to a commander means that it needs to have the strength to justify occupying a commander slot. This needs to be taken into account when discussing balance, I see this far too often.
21 Feb 2014, 06:31 AM
#29
Posts: 39
Conscripts wrecking grens is probably more related to the fireing arc changes last(?) patch than the PPSH buff. As i understand it they fire in a wider cone relative to their movement, so they spend more time firing while flanking.
21 Feb 2014, 06:38 AM
#30
Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2
i don't understand why make ppsh doctrinal, make it a global upgrade. that would give you so much more variety, do you want to upgrade to ppsh or you wanna go for a fast t70 or perhaps snipers etc.
But on topic, i think this was a good change, ppsh costing 10 munis before was a joke.
But on topic, i think this was a good change, ppsh costing 10 munis before was a joke.
21 Feb 2014, 06:54 AM
#31
5 Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2
Conscripts wrecking grens is probably more related to the fireing arc changes last(?) patch than the PPSH buff. As i understand it they fire in a wider cone relative to their movement, so they spend more time firing while flanking.
Ahhh this makes total sense. So even though the DPS of the 3x PPSH itself is still less than the previous single player 2x PPSH, that doesn't necessarily mean the actual dps on the move is lower.
21 Feb 2014, 07:48 AM
#32
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
40-45 for Ppsh? srsly? people know how it's easy to lose a conscript squad? 30 munis is a perfect prize for Ppsh upgrade, it's not cheap, and not expensive, with 30 muni cost soviet player must decide what he gonna do, mines, flamers or Ppsh, because let's be honest, how much munitions can soviet player float before he reach 3 CP's? like 100?
21 Feb 2014, 08:22 AM
#33
Posts: 4928
Why is this even an issue? PPSH took a HUGE nerf last patch (they used to have the PPSH from single player, which had much higher dps). Adding another, weaker smg to the squad is still not as good as the old PPSH upgrade.
Completely fine as is.
This is exactly what I thought, too. They had the SP PPSh (not sure which version of it), then changed it to the weaker MP version and reduced the price. They realised that made it weak, added a third and increased the price again. We're not back at square one, but we're close enough to it.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
21 Feb 2014, 13:29 PM
#34
Posts: 184
After playing alot of games, i really think this new soviet commander is a little bit too powerful.
The PPSh is alot stronger, scripts can now wipe squads on retreat, can go toe to toe with PG's, beat grens if up close and have an anti tank grenade.
The radio intercept adds a maphack.
The T34-85 is one of the best soviet tanks price wise and the IL2 is still very powerful.
What more could u want in a Commander?
The PPSh is alot stronger, scripts can now wipe squads on retreat, can go toe to toe with PG's, beat grens if up close and have an anti tank grenade.
The radio intercept adds a maphack.
The T34-85 is one of the best soviet tanks price wise and the IL2 is still very powerful.
What more could u want in a Commander?
76561198005515393
21 Feb 2014, 13:50 PM
#35
Posts: 184
I agree, the doctrine reads like a soviet players wish list. If relic wants to make a German wish list then here is mine:
Tiger -9cp
Command Tank - 7cp
Supply Drop Zone - 3cp
G43 Upgrade - 2cp
Troop Training - 0cp
Tiger -9cp
Command Tank - 7cp
Supply Drop Zone - 3cp
G43 Upgrade - 2cp
Troop Training - 0cp
21 Feb 2014, 14:18 PM
#36
Posts: 134
The clear solution here is to move guards and shocks to 1cp to make that commander less appealing as more soviets will be using elite troops callins thus reducing the number of ppsh con spammers 
21 Feb 2014, 14:25 PM
#37
Posts: 1734
Permanently BannedI agree, the doctrine reads like a soviet players wish list. If relic wants to make a German wish list then here is mine:
Tiger -9cp
Command Tank - 7cp
Supply Drop Zone - 3cp
G43 Upgrade - 2cp
Troop Training - 0cp
MHT
Smoke
G43
redistribute resources
Tiger
"I don't need a helmet"
-The guy who really needed a helmet
-The guy who really needed a helmet
21 Feb 2014, 14:30 PM
#38
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
The clear solution here is to move guards and shocks to 1cp to make that commander less appealing as more soviets will be using elite troops callins thus reducing the number of ppsh con spammers
Soviet combined arms for guards doctrine, which is free, default doctrine? Soviet shock army doctrine?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
21 Feb 2014, 14:33 PM
#39
Posts: 134
Soviet combined arms for guards doctrine, which is free, default doctrine? Soviet shock army doctrine?
Ssssshhhhh! Were keeping that a secret! Everyone look over there *points at radio intercept and ppsh doctrine* that needs attention.
21 Feb 2014, 15:16 PM
#40
Posts: 1439
I miss good old Shock spam. They were very easy to deal with and flamer halftruck got almost free run when they're used. Now you have to watch out for these pesky AT Nades. 
On the serious note however I think we need to adjust a bit as the new PPSH's aren't even remotely stronger then pre recent nerf ones.
Not to mention that new German commander is very strong as well.
On the serious note however I think we need to adjust a bit as the new PPSH's aren't even remotely stronger then pre recent nerf ones.
Not to mention that new German commander is very strong as well.
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