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How to save CoH3 from disaster ???

24 May 2023, 12:09 PM
#1
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2238 | Subs: 15

1. Enable full modding again, like CoH1

2. Pickup some Community maps and the balance mod (rebalance tuning pack) in Steam Workshop

3. Hire Janne252 for codding replay, obs mode and other sutff

4. Hire Inverse for gameplay designer and Whiteflash for mapping designer

5. Hire AmiPolizeiFunk and AE for Community managers.

6. Profit again.
24 May 2023, 12:46 PM
#2
avatar of gandamula

Posts: 62

jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2023, 12:09 PMnigo
1. Enable full modding again, like CoH1

2. Pickup some Community maps and the balance mod (rebalance tuning pack) in Steam Workshop

3. Hire Janne252 for codding replay, obs mode and other sutff

4. Hire Inverse for gameplay designer and Whiteflash for mapping designer

5. Hire AmiPolizeiFunk and AE for Community managers.

6. Profit again.


COH3 is the disaster, it cannot be saved from itself, it's not small details that don't captivate players, it's the whole game, top to bottom.
24 May 2023, 13:39 PM
#3
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 35

Why point 5 lol
24 May 2023, 14:32 PM
#5
avatar of UberHanz
Donator 11

Posts: 247 | Subs: 2



COH3 is the disaster, it cannot be saved from itself, it's not small details that don't captivate players, it's the whole game, top to bottom.


Not at all true. Core game is better than CoH2 - particularly at release. But it lacks a lot of polish and some development.

Im going to stay positive, as Relic is trying and has the balls to invest into RTS.

If you want to save CoH3 from disaster, we got to be a bit more realistic with the quality of the game. Its still one of the best RTS released in the last decade. Even in its challenging state.
24 May 2023, 19:12 PM
#6
avatar of DIRTY_FINISHER

Posts: 78

jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2023, 13:42 PMnigo


Because both are better than you.


I would rather have a Doberman as the community manager than the two people you listed 😊.
24 May 2023, 19:49 PM
#7
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682



COH3 is the disaster, it cannot be saved from itself, it's not small details that don't captivate players, it's the whole game, top to bottom.


to be fair, what would you know about the small details? you said you don't even own it. this is like saying you know how to drive because your mom took you to school for a few years
25 May 2023, 04:46 AM
#8
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1298

Not at all true. Core game is better than CoH2 - particularly at release. But it lacks a lot of polish and some development.


Agree.
25 May 2023, 07:37 AM
#9
avatar of CrazyMarxist

Posts: 2

Saying from Warcraft 3 Refunded experience, you really can't do anything if the studio is dead. Basically WC3 community did all the things from your list and surely game lives within the community but newcomers generally don't know and don't want to engage in some mods, ladders, etc. outside of original game. So it slowly dies even there and in general game is just dead.

So we can, as a community, make it live for ourselves and maybe at least overcome coh2 playerbase,
but that's it, imo.
25 May 2023, 12:25 PM
#10
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



I would rather have a Doberman as the community manager than the two people you listed 😊.


Weird comment. Dobermans are amazing.
25 May 2023, 12:39 PM
#11
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2023, 12:09 PMnigo
1. Enable full modding again, like CoH1

2. Pickup some Community maps and the balance mod (rebalance tuning pack) in Steam Workshop

3. Hire Janne252 for codding replay, obs mode and other sutff

4. Hire Inverse for gameplay designer and Whiteflash for mapping designer

5. Hire AmiPolizeiFunk and AE for Community managers.

6. Profit again.


The conventional reply to your post would be "What are you on and can I have some of it". :D

I doubt if Relic could afford either Inverse or Whiteflash who appear to be successful in their own commercial fields.

If Janne had wanted to work at Relic, he would have been there by now.

Following the live stream in 2014 with Yoink and remarks passed in a haze (to the enjoyment of all but Relic), I am afraid Ami became persona non grata for certain chaps at Relic, hence Operation Charlie Fox in 2015 (CF = crowd funding), which was the only way we could set up a big tournament without Relic support. Even with the success of OCF, Relic did not budge.

Apart from that, I agree with your post. ;)
25 May 2023, 14:40 PM
#12
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947



The conventional reply to your post would be "What are you on and can I have some of it". :D

I doubt if Relic could afford either Inverse or Whiteflash who appear to be successful in their own commercial fields.

If Janne had wanted to work at Relic, he would have been there by now.

Following the live stream in 2014 with Yoink and remarks passed in a haze (to the enjoyment of all but Relic), I am afraid Ami became persona non grata for certain chaps at Relic, hence Operation Charlie Fox in 2015 (CF = crowd funding), which was the only way we could set up a big tournament without Relic support. Even with the success of OCF, Relic did not budge.

Apart from that, I agree with your post. ;)


My guess is that Janne is also well compensated. He certainly has skills. For reference, one of my relatives is a developer for a financial company and makes double the average game developer salary, another works for and IT consulting company and makes about 1.5x.

Relic mostly just needed a competent project manager for COH3. My view from afar is that they didn't. I've managed projects in a couple of industries for 30+ years and am sure that I would've been fired from any position I've ever had if I would've delivered something like COH3.

As far as the number being indicative of something else, my impression is that Relic has way too many employees for a studio that doesn't have a major release soon. Also, the org chart for COH3 looked way too fat. One trivial example is having an Art Director and a Technical Art Director. When you have multiple people doing similar jobs, the result is usually that it slows progress, and makes what should be simple decisions into nightmarish committee decisions.

If Sega was going to pull the plug, it seems like the cuts would've been much deeper. You don't need to keep a couple hundred employees to transfer the intellectual property to another development studio.
25 May 2023, 14:44 PM
#13
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947



Weird comment. Dobermans are amazing.


Dobermans have a bad reputation in the United States, as do Rottweilers, pit bulls and a few other breeds. The problem is that assholes are allowed to have dogs and they teach the dogs to be assholes like them.
25 May 2023, 15:38 PM
#14
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2099 | Subs: 2

How to save Coh3?

1) Fire the morons who let the game release in the current state.
2) Fire the morons who let it sit stagnant for 3 months and add a store.
3) Put out a real survey with real questions.
4) Stop having 75 meetings and actually do some work.

1) Done.

2) Done.

3) Gabby made a joke on Discord asking what we want A or B. This is what the survey needs to be. Not some bean counting "Would you tell youre friends to buy Coh3?" trash. Actual survey of real issues.

Put these things in order of importance 1-10
  • ___ Replay System.
  • ___ Leaderboards.
  • ___ Player Names.
  • ___ Fix the post game stats.
  • ___ Upgrade the audio files.
  • ___ Create a 3rd volume control for announcements.
  • ___ Reduce TTK for units.
  • ___ Improve vehicle pathing.
  • ___ Add maps and/or fix issue blocking community maps from being added.
  • ___ Stop sucking.


4) We will never know why it takes Relic so long to do anything. Do they have to call a meeting for all department heads every time someone needs to go to the bathroom? It sure as hell seems like they do. Hopefully some leadership was cut and they can get thru the red tape and get some work done now.
25 May 2023, 15:42 PM
#15
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2099 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 May 2023, 14:44 PMGrumpy
Dobermans have a bad reputation in the United States, as do Rottweilers, pit bulls and a few other breeds. The problem is that assholes are allowed to have dogs and they teach the dogs to be assholes like them.

And the fact they are wild animals that you cant control no matter what. No one should be allowed to own one of these animals ever for any reason. Partially due to your statement, any moron can get one. And partially because they are psychotic killing machines. If your dick is so small or you are too afraid to be alone in the world, you need to figure out something else besides playing russian roulette with the people around you.
25 May 2023, 16:55 PM
#16
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post25 May 2023, 14:40 PMGrumpy


My guess is that Janne is also well compensated. He certainly has skills. For reference, one of my relatives is a developer for a financial company and makes double the average game developer salary, another works for and IT consulting company and makes about 1.5x.


I would agree with your guess, but as I last spoke to Janne some years ago when he was studying, I don't know what he is doing now.

Relic mostly just needed a competent project manager for COH3. My view from afar is that they didn't. I've managed projects in a couple of industries for 30+ years and am sure that I would've been fired from any position I've ever had if I would've delivered something like COH3.

As far as the number being indicative of something else, my impression is that Relic has way too many employees for a studio that doesn't have a major release soon. Also, the org chart for COH3 looked way too fat. One trivial example is having an Art Director and a Technical Art Director. When you have multiple people doing similar jobs, the result is usually that it slows progress, and makes what should be simple decisions into nightmarish committee decisions.

If Sega was going to pull the plug, it seems like the cuts would've been much deeper. You don't need to keep a couple hundred employees to transfer the intellectual property to another development studio.



Broadly, we are in consensus. However, SEGA apparently took something of a reputational risk back home when they acquired Relic at a bankruptcy auction for approx $26 million at the start of 2013. Allegedly, Japanese companies should grow their product from the ground up and take-overs of foreign comnpanies are (or were) something of a no-no. So there was a save-face element attached to the launch of COH2 and when the request was made for a 3 month extension before release of COH2, SEGA complied. As we know, the eventual COH2 release was innovative but lamentable in so many aspects. I don't want to exaggerate but the COH2 release saw off a fair few of the COH1 afficionados because it was a different game and poorly executed. It was November 2013 before the first real correction took place and it was a year from release before COH2 was up and running, free of the clown car/sniper combo.

DOW2 took an almighty tumble. While I believe COH3 may be retrievable, I somehow doubt if the Japanese in charge want to relive the COH2 experience again and again. If they can sell on and capture their initial capital, it saves face and gives them a get out. There was speculation that SEGA might sell Relic to Microsoft in advance of the AOE rerelease.

Many game companies seem to be currently shedding staff. Kotaku report

I guess it comes down to how you might want to present a company for sale. If you have some workers apparently working on a new project as well as a core title just launched but ripe for improvement and exploration, maybe it might appeal to e.g. Smoking Gun?



25 May 2023, 16:58 PM
#17
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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Patrion 314

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jump backJump back to quoted post25 May 2023, 14:44 PMGrumpy


Dobermans have a bad reputation in the United States, as do Rottweilers, pit bulls and a few other breeds. The problem is that assholes are allowed to have dogs and they teach the dogs to be assholes like them.


The UK Armed Forces and its police forces rejected Dobermans and also Rottweilers long ago. Apparently, they are liable to lapses in concentration and therefore unreliable. Alsatians seem to be the order of the day.
26 May 2023, 01:50 AM
#18
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 May 2023, 15:42 PMRosbone

And the fact they are wild animals that you cant control no matter what. No one should be allowed to own one of these animals ever for any reason. Partially due to your statement, any moron can get one. And partially because they are psychotic killing machines. If your dick is so small or you are too afraid to be alone in the world, you need to figure out something else besides playing russian roulette with the people around you.


With all due respect Rosbone, you are totally wrong on this one.

Dobermans are not "psychotic killing machines". There is hundreds of thousands of them living in families all over the world. They are not bred to kill but to guard and protect. They can be trained very well due to their loyal and obedient nature. Much better in fact that most other dog breeds.

I grew up playing almost daily with my neighbors Doberman. He died when I was 12. I still remember the sadness of him passing away. He never bit anyone. Was a great dog like most other dogs that aren`t being owned by morons.

If you actually looked up dog bite statistics you would understand that your sentiment regarding Dobermans is not based on reality.

It only takes a few minutes of search:

https://www.statista.com/chart/15446/breeds-of-dog-involved-in-fatal-attacks-on-humans-in-the-us/

From 2005 to 2017 in the US, number of deaths caused by dog bites:

American Pittbulls 284
...
Doberman 6

26 May 2023, 02:08 AM
#19
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2099 | Subs: 2

With all due respect Rosbone, you are totally wrong on this one.
American Pittbulls 284
...
Doberman 6

Yes, my focus was more Pittbulls and the smooth brains that own them. Not sure I have ever heard of a doberman attacking anyone. When I was a kid I played with some rando dobers and they were fine. Been bit by several shepards as a kid.
26 May 2023, 06:00 AM
#20
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 02:08 AMRosbone

Yes, my focus was more Pittbulls and the smooth brains that own them. Not sure I have ever heard of a doberman attacking anyone. When I was a kid I played with some rando dobers and they were fine. Been bit by several shepards as a kid.


I knew a woman who had a Doberman that bit her once. Not sure why it happened. It was kind of odd because she said that the dog was fierce and protective but the first time I went over to her house, it came over to me and wanted to be petted. It was always really nice to me.

I still think the problem with pitbulls is more the owner than anything else. One of my nieces has had two and both of them were no problem for people. One of them was aggressive towards other dogs so I stopped taking mine around it.
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