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russian armor

Heavy balance

6 Sep 2022, 18:35 PM
#1
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 445

If i had one wish, i would buff is2 tiger and tiger ace, theyr too weak.

I had a game with a tiger ace that had 31 kills in a 50 min game, that is too low.
6 Sep 2022, 21:13 PM
#2
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 702 | Subs: 1

230 fuel heavies are not the best units in the game, but achieving such a killcount is only possible if you are pressed by heavy tank destroyers
7 Sep 2022, 19:51 PM
#3
7 Sep 2022, 22:53 PM
#4
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 178


I had a game with a tiger ace that had 31 kills in a 50 min game, that is too low.

Gonna give the replay?

Cuz saying that with no context is meaningless lol

I once saw a pro player (i think it was HelpingHans?) get 100 kills with a Hetzer. Does that mean hetzer OP? Nope
8 Sep 2022, 01:08 AM
#5
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 637

If any changes were made to Heavy Tanks, I personally would like to see them integrated into each faction as Stock Units.

In Dawn of War 2 each faction had super end game units. For example Chaos had the Great Unclean One, Eldar had Wraith Lord etc

I would like to see COH follow that same design philosophy.


So Soviets would have IS-2 Stock, Whermacht would have Tiger Stock, USF would have Pershing Stock.

8 Sep 2022, 01:35 AM
#6
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 723

If any changes were made to Heavy Tanks, I personally would like to see them integrated into each faction as Stock Units.

In Dawn of War 2 each faction had super end game units. For example Chaos had the Great Unclean One, Eldar had Wraith Lord etc

I would like to see COH follow that same design philosophy.


So Soviets would have IS-2 Stock, Whermacht would have Tiger Stock, USF would have Pershing Stock.



and limited to 1 and 1 only IE you fuck up and lose it sorry about your luck.


Ive always thought this is the way it should of been with all super heavys.
9 Sep 2022, 15:14 PM
#7
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1076

If anything, I would make Heavies have more hp and fire better.
9 Sep 2022, 20:43 PM
#8
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1844 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Sep 2022, 01:35 AMRocket


and limited to 1 and 1 only IE you fuck up and lose it sorry about your luck.


Ive always thought this is the way it should of been with all super heavys.


This. Buffing them straight up is a big no unless we all want to go back a couple patches to that one patch that was just IS2 and Tiger all game every game.
9 Sep 2022, 21:23 PM
#9
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 513



This. Buffing them straight up is a big no unless we all want to go back a couple patches to that one patch that was just IS2 and Tiger all game every game.


Yea I remember losing 2 Vet3 double bar Rifleman to a tiger in a shot or 2. Shit was insane.

I don't think it would be as bad as it used to be due to the tech requirements.

They do seem to be kind of weak for how much they cost(tanks, not TD), the only one that truly seems worth it is the KT due to available HEAT/TankComm/Spearhead. All the others ones seem to be easily counterable with available TD.
9 Sep 2022, 21:24 PM
#10
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 262



This. Buffing them straight up is a big no unless we all want to go back a couple patches to that one patch that was just IS2 and Tiger all game every game.



Fun times
10 Sep 2022, 08:42 AM
#11
avatar of OKSpitfire

Posts: 75



Yea I remember losing 2 Vet3 double bar Rifleman to a tiger in a shot or 2. Shit was insane.

I don't think it would be as bad as it used to be due to the tech requirements.

They do seem to be kind of weak for how much they cost(tanks, not TD), the only one that truly seems worth it is the KT due to available HEAT/TankComm/Spearhead. All the others ones seem to be easily counterable with available TD.


Indeed, even without HEAT/TankComm, the KT seems to be the only one left that can easily wipe infantry squads in a couple of shots from long range. The amount of threat it brings sets it apart from the rest.
10 Sep 2022, 16:17 PM
#12
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 702 | Subs: 1

If any changes were made to Heavy Tanks, I personally would like to see them integrated into each faction as Stock Units.

In Dawn of War 2 each faction had super end game units. For example Chaos had the Great Unclean One, Eldar had Wraith Lord etc

I would like to see COH follow that same design philosophy.


So Soviets would have IS-2 Stock, Whermacht would have Tiger Stock, USF would have Pershing Stock.



i would love to have is-2 stock, but realistically a stock heavy tank would be too imbalanced because you can combine it with things you werent meant to combine it with (and yeah okw shouldn't have gotten non-doc kt, they can go fuck themselves
10 Sep 2022, 19:13 PM
#13
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 637

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2022, 16:17 PMKatukov


i would love to have is-2 stock, but realistically a stock heavy tank would be too imbalanced because you can combine it with things you werent meant to combine it with (and yeah okw shouldn't have gotten non-doc kt, they can go fuck themselves



I think it would be fine if they required around 14 CP before they can be unlocked (to prevent rushing them)


Especially if all Heavy Tanks came with ammo switching like the Sherman to switch between Anti-Infantry or Anti-Tank modes.

10 Sep 2022, 23:00 PM
#14
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 702 | Subs: 1




I think it would be fine if they required around 14 CP before they can be unlocked (to prevent rushing them)


Especially if all Heavy Tanks came with ammo switching like the Sherman to switch between Anti-Infantry or Anti-Tank modes.



1- you do not need ammo switch rounds
2- default heavy tanks probably wont appear in company of heroes 2, also cp 14 is way too late, this is when elefants can be made
14 Sep 2022, 14:26 PM
#16
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1076

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2022, 16:17 PMKatukov


i would love to have is-2 stock, but realistically a stock heavy tank would be too imbalanced because you can combine it with things you werent meant to combine it with (and yeah okw shouldn't have gotten non-doc kt, they can go fuck themselves


ok genius what would happen to okw when they lost scwhere and had no last resort?

kt is primarily a last resort to counteract the loss of schwere because if you lose it you not only lose the ability to make good tanks but also the ability to make elite inf.

l2p
14 Sep 2022, 15:56 PM
#17
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 702 | Subs: 1



ok genius what would happen to okw when they lost scwhere and had no last resort?

kt is primarily a last resort to counteract the loss of schwere because if you lose it you not only lose the ability to make good tanks but also the ability to make elite inf.

l2p


"l2p" "what should happen if you lose pz HQ?!?!?!?"


in 1v1s you will be at a disadvantage and KT stall wont save you because your enemy builds two tank destroyers, in team mode you will already go king tiger to abuse spearhead + tank commander. you are not gonna put important tech structures right behind your frontline and then be punished once you get pushed back, right?
16 Sep 2022, 23:03 PM
#18
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 712

If any changes were made to Heavy Tanks, I personally would like to see them integrated into each faction as Stock Units.

In Dawn of War 2 each faction had super end game units. For example Chaos had the Great Unclean One, Eldar had Wraith Lord etc

I would like to see COH follow that same design philosophy.


So Soviets would have IS-2 Stock, Whermacht would have Tiger Stock, USF would have Pershing Stock.


Agree,but Whermacht already have many heavy armor,I thought could give 20 pop Command Panther with switch HE/AP for whermacht.
17 Sep 2022, 19:06 PM
#19
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 178

Still shocked tht this thread even exists. Gotta be crazy to want heavy tank buffs after their history in this game lol
18 Sep 2022, 14:41 PM
#20
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 637

Still shocked tht this thread even exists. Gotta be crazy to want heavy tank buffs after their history in this game lol



It would be easier to balance the Heavy Tanks if they were all available as Stock units and were available as super end game units like the super units in Dawn of War 2.



One of the biggest problems with COH2 in regards to heavy tanks was always the timing. It just didn't feel good getting a T-34/Panzer 4 and then like 2 minutes later your enemy who skipped out on making vehicles can call in Heavy Tanks.


Like the Pershing for example which was nerfed into the ground, I had no issue with it being great at killing Infantry, the problem was that it would come out way too soon, and then rather than fixing the core issue units will often get hit with triple or quadruple nerfs making them worthless.


So by having all Heavy Tanks stock, making them all available at 12-14CP and having them balanced against each other (Like IS-2 vs Tiger) would go a long way to creating a healthier Meta.

Now lets say we add in Ammo Switching to all Heavy Tanks like the Sherman, you can then adjust the range of the AP/HE rounds to further tweak the units as well.

A tiger for example could have 60 range while using AP rounds, (which would help break up the tank destroyer spam meta) but then being extremely exposed with HE rounds and being limited to 40 range creating strengths and weaknesses for each Heavy instead of the Generic attack move kill everything low risk high reward beasts that they were before.


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