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Why Stuart is sh*t compared to T70

26 Mar 2022, 10:07 AM
#81
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2022, 09:46 AMEsxile


What don't you understand when I say that at the realize of the extension the Stuart was a monster vs infantry but with low vision and low range. What do you expect to find in a patch not about it? You only find that its AI has been nerfed to the ground but it kept its low vision and low range.

Stuart has a range of 40 similar to most vehicles and the same like the other vehicles of its class the T-70/Luch now feel free to explain why that in your opinion that is "low".

Stuart has a 35 sight radius similar to most vehicles and the same like the other vehicles of its class the T-70/Luch now feel free to explain why that in your opinion that is "poor".
MMX
26 Mar 2022, 10:07 AM
#82
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1


[...]


Good post that basically covers it all already. However, just to add to this specific part:



The T-70 having -1 in its Range Profile basically makes it use the Near Accuracy most if not all of the time.

When testing the Stuart with -1 in its Range Profile being the only modifier changed suddenly the Stuart is on T-70 levels. Like night and day difference.

So the conclusion here is that the Stuart suffers greatly from essentially always being at FAR range due to its shite Range profile while the T-70 is almost always at Near Range thus making it significantly more potent due to the large increase in accuracy between Near and Far.



I'm not sure what specifically you've tested there, but when I ran a test with the Stuart's accuracy profile set to 1, 0.5, 0 (n,m,f) and range set to -1, -1, -1 (n, m, f) I get exactly the expected result: Accuracy is interpolated between 1 at 0 m and zero at max range (40 m) just as for any other tank weapon without specified range points (i.e. ranges set to -1, -1, -1). No surprises or anomalies here.
26 Mar 2022, 10:09 AM
#83
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

Stuart is quite fine. It's in a good spot. Thing is, people see the fast firing T70 that keeps the Soviets alive and think that that's the gold standard. It's not. Stuart won't bleed like a T70 or Flak HT but that's why it can deal with any other Axis LV with ease, something that axis can't do easily. Sure they have the longer range and faster firing snares, but still, taking everything into account, Stuart is fine. It could use a little price reduction, 5 fuel, but that's it. It's in a good spot.

Given how it's in a tech without the AT gun, it's kinda needed that it has better AT properties, than AI.
26 Mar 2022, 10:10 AM
#84
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2022, 10:07 AMMMX


Good post that basically covers it all already. However, just to add to this specific part:



I'm not sure what specifically you've tested there, but when I ran a test with the Stuart's accuracy profile set to 1, 0.5, 0 (n,m,f) and range set to -1, -1, -1 (n, m, f) I get exactly the expected result: Accuracy is interpolated between 1 at 0 m and zero at max range (40 m) just as for any other tank weapon without specified range points (i.e. ranges set to -1, -1, -1). No surprises or anomalies here.

When some people run out things to rant about they discover any difference in stat and try to blow it out of proportion and present it as a major disadvantage.

First we had the "wind up" and now the far range.
MMX
26 Mar 2022, 10:36 AM
#85
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2022, 10:10 AMVipper

When some people run out things to rant about they discover any difference in stat and try to blow it out of proportion and present it as a major disadvantage.

First we had the "wind up" and now the far range.


I wouldn't assume there's any bad intent behind this per se, it's just that many of the fundamental mechanics in CoH 2 are pretty obscure and not well explained anywhere, except maybe a in few, long-buried forum threads. That makes it difficult to judge what effect many of the different parameters have, not least due to how much the RNG nature of the game makes testing things by yourself an arduous task.
I hope CoH 3 will be a bit more transparent on that front right from the start...
26 Mar 2022, 10:59 AM
#86
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2022, 10:36 AMMMX


I wouldn't assume there's any bad intent behind this per se, it's just that many of the fundamental mechanics in CoH 2 are pretty obscure and not well explained anywhere, except maybe a in few, long-buried forum threads. That makes it difficult to judge what effect many of the different parameters have, not least due to how much the RNG nature of the game makes testing things by yourself an arduous task.
I hope CoH 3 will be a bit more transparent on that front right from the start...

I doubt their is bad intended also (at least in the majority of cases) but some people seem to have predetermined there own narrative regardless of stats and they are trying to use the stats accordingly instead checking the stat to see if their narrative holds water.

Yes COH mechanics are obscure but the issue has also to do with distrust some people demonstrate when someone tries to explain things to them.
26 Mar 2022, 11:25 AM
#87
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3106 | Subs: 2


The T-70 having -1 in its Range Profile basically makes it use the Near Accuracy most if not all of the time.

When testing the Stuart with -1 in its Range Profile being the only modifier changed suddenly the Stuart is on T-70 levels. Like night and day difference.

So the conclusion here is that the Stuart suffers greatly from essentially always being at FAR range due to its shite Range profile while the T-70 is almost always at Near Range thus making it significantly more potent due to the large increase in accuracy between Near and Far.

I just checked the attribute editor again. The descriptions are not always true, but most of the time.

It literally says "If set to -1, this value will use the minimum range of the weapon as the near range instead." for the near value and "...maximum range..." for the far value.
If you put out claims like that, please provide some real data.
26 Mar 2022, 12:47 PM
#88
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2022, 09:20 AMVipper



Are going to try the "easy" way out by playing the usual "run out of arguments derailing card" or are you going to admit that your description of Stuart performance is false?
(Actually is simpler to admit you got something wrong.)


This post was not directed at me, but i have to say this about it.

The sheer nerve of the last few posts.
You should really follow what you posted here yourself. Admitting when wrong is something you cant grasp apperantly. You are absolutly in no position to accuse some one else of derailing threads or going on about "their" narrative at all. Esp when you clearly have your own, and your track record of derailing threads is very long to say it mildly.

A large dose off self reflection is long overdue in your case.
26 Mar 2022, 13:29 PM
#89
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682

Kurobane first left out information to make something look worse than it actually is and then mistakenly interpreted stats and presented them as facts.
26 Mar 2022, 18:41 PM
#90
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



This post was not directed at me, but i have to say this about it.

The sheer nerve of the last few posts.
You should really follow what you posted here yourself. Admitting when wrong is something you cant grasp apperantly. You are absolutly in no position to accuse some one else of derailing threads or going on about "their" narrative at all. Esp when you clearly have your own, and your track record of derailing threads is very long to say it mildly.

A large dose off self reflection is long overdue in your case.

This thread is about Stuart and not my posting habits, pls try not to derail it by posting things that are off topic.

If you agree with esxile's claim that Stuart has "low" range and "poor" sight radius feel to explain why.
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