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russian armor

Relief for USF teching problems

9 Sep 2021, 20:02 PM
#21
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Ya at vet 3. Good luck getting a stuart to vet 3

It have just under 44 at vet 1 which is barely more than a pio squad

Doesnt scout that well tbh, but its okay cuz m20 is right there anyway

There is a major difference between "it cannot Scout or be used for Vision" and "does not scout that well" so you should be explain that to Kurobane and not me.
9 Sep 2021, 20:32 PM
#22
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Sep 2021, 19:28 PMVipper


Start get 56 vision with veterancy and it scout just fine.


Base Stuart Vision = 35





Vet 1 - Additional +10 Vision




TOTAL POSSIBLE STUART VISION = 45 AT VET 1




KUBELWAGON Vision = 50



PUMA VISION = 50


OKW SdKfz 221 Scout Car Vision = 50(SturmTiger Commander Scout Car)


Whermacht SdKfz 222 Armored Car Base Vision = 50


VET 2 Adds +15 Vision For a Total of 65 Vision for the 222


PIONEER Vision = 42



9 Sep 2021, 20:51 PM
#23
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

The stuart is one of the other overnerfed units for usf. Scott stuart and aa halftrack. Lot off dead weight in mid and late game.

Usf currently seems to have the most under preforming units out off all the factions.

This needs to be adressed. Esp since any of these balances can be the last.
9 Sep 2021, 21:01 PM
#24
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


....
TOTAL POSSIBLE STUART VISION = 45 AT VET 1
...

Do not confuse Light tanks with Reckon vehicles.

Now check Vet 3 Stuart bonus that give it an addition x1.3 vision, Stuart can be used for vision or to scout.

I would advice you to simply admit that was you posted is simply false and move.

9 Sep 2021, 21:02 PM
#25
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2257 | Subs: 1

in my opinion it's mostly the Map design which doesn't favour the US mobile hit and Run approach. I guess even more so in teamgames
9 Sep 2021, 22:55 PM
#26
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Sep 2021, 20:02 PMVipper

There is a major difference between "it cannot Scout or be used for Vision" and "does not scout that well" so you should be explain that to Kurobane and not me.

Nah your post was much more misleading

It does not scout "just fine". ANd you will almost never see a vet 3 stuart so saying its gets 56 with vet is pointless

Are you implying that Puma and AEC are not light tanks? they get 50 vision...
9 Sep 2021, 23:14 PM
#27
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Nah your post was much more misleading

Will not even bother responding


It does not scout "just fine". ANd you will almost never see a vet 3 stuart so saying its gets 56 with vet is pointless

Even at vet 1 it gets 45 vision so it can "be used for Vision", once at vet 3 with sight 56 it can "scout" quite effectively, contrary to has been posted.


Are you implying that Puma and AEC are not light tanks? they get 50 vision...

I am not implying it, I am saying it clearly, no there are not light tanks, tank have tracks, they are both armored cars.

Now can you pls move on?
10 Sep 2021, 00:28 AM
#28
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Sep 2021, 23:14 PMVipper

Will not even bother responding


Even at vet 1 it gets 45 vision so it can "be used for Vision", once at vet 3 with sight 56 it can "scout" quite effectively, contrary to has been posted.


I am not implying it, I am saying it clearly, no there are not light tanks, tank have tracks, they are both armored cars.

Now can you pls move on?

But u did respond lol, soooo

The stuart is not a scouting unit, scouting units dont need to vet up just to have more than default vision... m20 literally in the same tier

Im talking about role. PUMa and AEC clearly are treated as light tanks in the game. 3 shots to kill, they punch much harder than 222, m3a1, m20, and cost much more. And having wheels vs tracks has nothing to do with vision....
10 Sep 2021, 01:02 AM
#29
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


But u did respond lol, soooo

The stuart is not a scouting unit, scouting units dont need to vet up just to have more than default vision... m20 literally in the same tier

Feel free to inform Kurobane about it instead of me, he is the one comparing the Stuart to a Kubel.


...
Stuart
-Only Light Vehicle with 35 Vision compared to 50 for most other light vehicles (including Kubelwagon) So it
cannot Scout or be used for Vision.
....



Im talking about role. PUMa and AEC clearly are treated as light tanks in the game. 3 shots to kill, they punch much harder than 222, m3a1, m20, and cost much more. And having wheels vs tracks has nothing to do with vision....

No they not "treated" as lights tanks but as "heavy armored cars".
I am not even sure why you want to argue semantics, you asked if they are light tanks and I pointed out that since they do not have tracks they are not.

Unless want to argue that Stuart should but "cannot Scout or be used for Vision" as kurobane claims, I am not even sure what is the point you are trying to make, so I suggest you move on.

(edited)
Vaz
10 Sep 2021, 03:38 AM
#30
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1158

vipper is using the exception as the rule. The fact is, if you compare the total amount of stuarts that have reached vet3 and compare it to the the total that have reached vet1 and even more so, the total number of stuarts ever produced, you will find that the tool most people are using is the vet0 stuart. So trying to say it's a good scout vehicle because once you get it to vet3 just isn't good. Most stuarts are not reaching vet3 and the amount that do are a small fraction. We can't have a balance discussion over something that is 10% at best(I'm sure it's closer to 1%).

Do any of those 50 vision vet0 vehicles get vision upgrades with vet?
10 Sep 2021, 03:57 AM
#31
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2021, 03:38 AMVaz
vipper is using the exception as the rule. The fact is, if you compare the total amount of stuarts that have reached vet3 and compare it to the the total that have reached vet1 and even more so, the total number of stuarts ever produced, you will find that the tool most people are using is the vet0 stuart. So trying to say it's a good scout vehicle because once you get it to vet3 just isn't good. Most stuarts are not reaching vet3 and the amount that do are a small fraction. We can't have a balance discussion over something that is 10% at best(I'm sure it's closer to 1%).

Do any of those 50 vision vet0 vehicles get vision upgrades with vet?


That is not what I have said. I have simply corrected a false claim.

It has been claimed that

"Stuart
-Only Light Vehicle with 35 Vision compared to 50 for most other light vehicles (including Kubelwagon) So it cannot Scout or be used for Vision. "

Not all light vehicles get 50 sight by default. There 3 stock light tank in game Luch, T-70 and Stuart and they all start with a sight of 35. Claiming that Stuart has drawn the sort end of the stick when it comes to sight is simply false.

I have also pointed that once it has reached vet 1 it can be used for "visions" and if it reaches vet 3 it can Scout.
10 Sep 2021, 04:17 AM
#32
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

Stuart was overnerfed imo, they should've made it more similar to the puma. Wouldn't make sense historically but would fit better in their roster/tech

Maybe like 120dmg, longer reload, less effective against infantry, pen buff. Too late to do any of this now, but I think focusing it more on AT would've made more sense given what the USF has against infantry already
MMX
10 Sep 2021, 04:40 AM
#33
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1


[...]


wtf did i just read... the stuart is a waste of fuel and serves no role for USF?

this is arguably one of the most useful light tanks in the game and literally build in 90% of all USF games (1v1) as a result. decent AI paired with excellent AT against anything of its class or lower - and to top it off you have vehicle crews for quick fixing and shell shock to give it some utility in the later stages of the game.

the ATHT might pale in comparison, but i wouldn't say it's a bad unit at all. it deals decent suppression and can stand its ground against most other light vehicles when supported properly, although it does lack some survivabiliity due to being 320 HP and not having any sort of defensive smoke. i think the major reason it is not built all too often is that it comes in cpt tier and the lt / .50 / stuart combo is much safer and more efficient to play.
10 Sep 2021, 05:43 AM
#34
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2021, 04:40 AMMMX


wtf did i just read... the stuart is a waste of fuel and serves no role for USF?

this is arguably one of the most useful light tanks in the game and literally build in 90% of all USF games (1v1) as a result.

It's super useful in 1v1. Drops off hard in team games

On the other hand AAHT becomes a lot better in teams imo. Much more blobbing to counter and as long as you have 57mm nearby it's usually safe from being rushed
Vaz
10 Sep 2021, 05:57 AM
#35
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1158

aaht does poorly for blob control, but it definitely is useful in team games. It works much better if you have some squads around to help out. You have to do a bunch of stupid micro no one else(okw) has to do with similar platforms. So even firing on a blob, it's only gonna suppress 1 squad at a time and you'll have to keep moving it, because the squads not getting suppressed will advance on the vehicle and take it out if you don't. So use a rifle squad to maintain the suppression on the suppressed squad and manually switch target with aaht to a new squad. Repeat until you run out of support, they die, or they retreat.

In contrast with the flakht, park(only downside) it where you don't want infantry to be, when blob approaches watch them all hit the dirt, run them over with your better blob.
10 Sep 2021, 08:39 AM
#36
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2021, 01:02 AMVipper

Feel free to inform Kurobane about it instead of me, he is the one comparing the Stuart to a Kubel.




No they not "treated" as lights tanks but as "heavy armored cars".
I am not even sure why you want to argue semantics, you asked if they are light tanks and I pointed out that since they do not have tracks they are not.

Unless want to argue that Stuart should but "cannot Scout or be used for Vision" as kurobane claims, I am not even sure what is the point you are trying to make, so I suggest you move on.

(edited)

Lulz okay dude, cuz your not arguing semantics :loco: Stuart could just use a buff, 50 sight range default would be useful but USF doesnt rly need more scout

It clearly compares more to puma and aec than to luchs and t70 tho. Call them whatever u want, if its supposed to be a hybrid of those (no?) then it should get buffed against inf
10 Sep 2021, 08:42 AM
#37
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2021, 04:40 AMMMX


wtf did i just read... the stuart is a waste of fuel and serves no role for USF?

this is arguably one of the most useful light tanks in the game and literally build in 90% of all USF games (1v1) as a result. decent AI paired with excellent AT against anything of its class or lower - and to top it off you have vehicle crews for quick fixing and shell shock to give it some utility in the later stages of the game.

the ATHT might pale in comparison, but i wouldn't say it's a bad unit at all. it deals decent suppression and can stand its ground against most other light vehicles when supported properly, although it does lack some survivabiliity due to being 320 HP and not having any sort of defensive smoke. i think the major reason it is not built all too often is that it comes in cpt tier and the lt / .50 / stuart combo is much safer and more efficient to play.



Useful =! good. He is useful because he comes with the Lt, m20 and HMG, put it back into captain tier and no one will remember it.

But at the moment the biggest offender is the AAHT that suppress badly.
10 Sep 2021, 09:11 AM
#38
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2021, 08:42 AMEsxile



Useful =! good. He is useful because he comes with the Lt, m20 and HMG, put it back into captain tier and no one will remember it.

But at the moment the biggest offender is the AAHT that suppress badly.

The AAHT is one of the few units that can suppress on the move so I am not sure why that is "badly".

The change I would like to see would be to have the "reverse" button as toggle making the unit drive backward. That might help the unit be easier to handle.
10 Sep 2021, 09:17 AM
#39
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2021, 09:11 AMVipper

The AAHT is one of the few units that can suppress on the move so I am not sure why that is "badly".


Then play USF and the AAHT.
10 Sep 2021, 09:17 AM
#40
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Lulz okay dude, cuz your not arguing semantics :loco: Stuart could just use a buff, 50 sight range default would be useful but USF doesnt rly need more scout

That does not really make much sense.

In addition Stuart see lots of action even from top players in 1vs1 so I am not sure why in your opinion it needs a buff.


It clearly compares more to puma and aec than to luchs and t70 tho. Call them whatever u want, if its supposed to be a hybrid of those (no?) then it should get buffed against inf

Puma and AEC are available to specific faction for specific reason so I am not sure why in your opinion it "compares" more to them.

Since it seems that you agree with my point that claim was false I am not sure why you continue quoting me.
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