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russian armor

Wehrmacht Flame halftrack.

25 Aug 2021, 09:54 AM
#21
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 163

Its a shock unit better than 222 at the cost of being useless late game as it requires too much micro and map awareness later on to survive. Its the most oppressive on the old ostruppen as you can end the game even before t3. The 222 utility make it as a safer and wiser choice like buying the panzer 4.
25 Aug 2021, 10:31 AM
#22
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



UC actually got an armor buff if you upgrade the wasp on it (or was that reverted??)

imo; scout car with flamer engineers is a lot more oppressive.


scout car with flamer engineers need to engage at close range (< pzFasut range).
while FrameHT have around 40-50 fire range.
25 Aug 2021, 12:32 PM
#23
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 312

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Aug 2021, 10:31 AMvgfgff


scout car with flamer engineers need to engage at close range (< pzFasut range).
while FrameHT have around 40-50 fire range.


well, at the time you get to see the 251 flamer you can also have a ZiS/6pdr/M1
25 Aug 2021, 12:49 PM
#24
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 280

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2021, 11:57 AMXARDAS
In my 2k or so games with ,,top tier,, players I actually never saw a flame HT to have some kind of an imporant impact into game


Did you play any 1v1s the last 1-2 years?
Flamer ht is very common with ostruppen which is the top tier meta and is very strong against soviets in general
25 Aug 2021, 18:02 PM
#25
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

Eh, it is too oppressive if you aren't prepared for it, but that description fits about every light vehicle/tank in this game.

At this point it's part of the game.
26 Aug 2021, 10:08 AM
#26
avatar of Elpern

Posts: 74

I wouldnt mind seeing an increase to the targetsize as a nerf, same goes for a lot of other vehicles such as m20, m17 I think?(m5+quad), 221, 222, flakht and uc spring to mind. If anything this would simply be a countermeasure to their reliability, currently at guns which are supposedly hard counters have a really hard time dealing with these vehicles, and their target sizes are all over the place ranging from 15 to 20. It should be standardized to 20 imo, to make counters more consistent and worthwhile
27 Aug 2021, 08:01 AM
#27
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



well, at the time you get to see the 251 flamer you can also have a ZiS/6pdr/M1


I already mentioned above that we're not talking about counter unit because any unit have counter.
27 Aug 2021, 08:02 AM
#28
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Aug 2021, 18:02 PMzarok47
Eh, it is too oppressive if you aren't prepared for it, but that description fits about every light vehicle/tank in this game.

At this point it's part of the game.


right. until uc and scout got nerf.
27 Aug 2021, 09:39 AM
#29
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 312

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2021, 08:01 AMvgfgff


I already mentioned above that we're not talking about counter unit because any unit have counter.


Yes you did, but it is still the solve to your 'problem' :).


You just want to see a unit nerfed even if it isn't excessively OP.
27 Aug 2021, 09:45 AM
#30
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2021, 10:08 AMElpern
I wouldnt mind seeing an increase to the targetsize as a nerf, same goes for a lot of other vehicles such as m20, m17 I think?(m5+quad), 221, 222, flakht and uc spring to mind. If anything this would simply be a countermeasure to their reliability, currently at guns which are supposedly hard counters have a really hard time dealing with these vehicles, and their target sizes are all over the place ranging from 15 to 20. It should be standardized to 20 imo, to make counters more consistent and worthwhile


Good stuff, though you'd run into lategame problems with LV's getting demolished.
Perhaps target size decrease with vet to solve that?

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2021, 08:02 AMvgfgff


right. until uc and scout got nerf.


Go play OkW vs those units and not prepare for it.

Or play against any light vehicle and not prepare for it. You get punished.

It's part of the game, unless you nerf all light vehicle's.
27 Aug 2021, 10:50 AM
#31
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1254

I mean, each allied faction has a way of dealing with the flame HT timing.

Soviets: PTSR penals or ZiS depending on the opening (hoorah conscripts)

USF: Lieutenant -> Stuart, or weapon rack zooks on REs
Captain -> AT gun or AA HT, Captain charge on rifles for the snare

Brits: AT gun, weapon racks piats on engineers, a bit later the AEC

Flame HT is great at dishing out the damage, but is not really that oppressive.
27 Aug 2021, 11:09 AM
#32
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2021, 09:45 AMzarok47


Good stuff, though you'd run into lategame problems with LV's getting demolished.
Perhaps target size decrease with vet to solve that?



Go play OkW vs those units and not prepare for it.

Or play against any light vehicle and not prepare for it. You get punished.

It's part of the game, unless you nerf all light vehicle's.


unless other already got nerf by reduced it armors to make in vulnerable to small arm fire.
as OKW I never have a problem with uc since its got timing nerf.
27 Aug 2021, 11:11 AM
#33
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2021, 11:09 AMvgfgff


ีืunless other already got nerf by reduced it armors to make in vulnerable to small arm fire.
as OKW I never have a problem with uc since its got timing nerf.


You don't know the 251 can be damaged by small arms fire?
Have you ever played ostheer?
27 Aug 2021, 11:25 AM
#34
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2021, 11:11 AMzarok47


You don't know the 251 can be damaged by small arms fire?
Have you ever played ostheer?



yes it is. but with that range and damage how you able to manage start a with its "small arm fire" before they got burning to death?

Can we just talk about particular (or similar ) by not pulling other?

let return to why is have more range and damage than KV-8
27 Aug 2021, 11:43 AM
#35
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 312

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2021, 11:11 AMzarok47


You don't know the 251 can be damaged by small arms fire?
Have you ever played ostheer?


vgfgff isn't looking for your solutions, only someone who tells him the 251 should indeed get 0 armor and 80 HP. To match his flamethrower engineer model.


Comparing the 251 with the KV8, which is basically a heavy tank, is laughable. Also, the KV-8 has the 45mm shells which means he KV8 can easily ditch a 251 in a 1 on 1 while the otherway around the 251 has 0 change :)
27 Aug 2021, 11:56 AM
#36
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



vgfgff isn't looking for your solutions, only someone who tells him the 251 should indeed get 0 armor and 80 HP. To match his flamethrower engineer model.


Comparing the 251 with the KV8, which is basically a heavy tank, is laughable. Also, the KV-8 has the 45mm shells which means he KV8 can easily ditch a 251 in a 1 on 1 while the otherway around the 251 has 0 change :)


My point is it deal damage more than late game unit .

I never tell I can't deal with it.this is just unit stats nor player skill.
you guy never answer or put a fact always pulling other unit to decussion that out of point.

27 Aug 2021, 12:27 PM
#37
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2021, 11:25 AMvgfgff


I don't believe you have ever played axis, much less with the 251.

I do believe you got beaten by someone using the 251 and therefor started posting about it.

Post a replay and I'll help you figure out counters.
27 Aug 2021, 12:53 PM
#38
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2021, 12:27 PMzarok47


I don't believe you have ever played axis, much less with the 251.

I do believe you got beaten by someone using the 251 and therefor started posting about it.

Post a replay and I'll help you figure out counters.


you can check my playercard.
27 Aug 2021, 12:53 PM
#39
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 312

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2021, 11:56 AMvgfgff


My point is it deal damage more than late game unit .

I never tell I can't deal with it.this is just unit stats nor player skill.
you guy never answer or put a fact always pulling other unit to decussion that out of point.



That is asymatrical balance, something Relic is famously known for.


The 'late game' unit you refer to has a lot more armor and HP, plus another gun (thus its fire damage can be a tiny bit less than the 251). The 251 is reasonbly fragile and loses other abilities in trade for its flamer. The WASP has possibly less flame damage cause it's cheaper and arrives earlier.

There are a ton of reasons why some units are similar, but still different. Also; take into account which support units each of these unit can have (AT-gun vs. 251 = effective // AT-gun vs. KV8 not as much).


That is why we give you the counters for each unit. Since that is the only thing you can use to compare a certain unit with. If the counter is not sufficient, we should change the unit that causes the problem. That is where Elpern has a point; AT-guns tend to miss light vehicles quite a lot thus their target size should increase a little.
27 Aug 2021, 12:54 PM
#40
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2021, 12:53 PMvgfgff


you can check my playercard.


Link it, then.
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