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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback

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4 Apr 2021, 00:25 AM
#141
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 786 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Apr 2021, 18:08 PMPip


The B4 was changed because it was AIDS. It was an inconsistent RNG cannon that either did nothing at all, or instantly killed a medium tank with lucky scatter.

I'm not saying that the "new" B4 is a good unit, it seems as though it needs further changes, but I am glad that the Balance Team seem to want to rework it into less of a memegun and into something that's actually usable/not AIDS to play against.

I'd personally suggest the AOE be increased on shells significantly, the damage somewhat lowered (So it doesn't obliterate squads), the number of shells increased, and perhaps having landed shells cause suppression/force buttoning/stun vehicles temporarily. I expect numbers would want to be tweaked a lot, but I think this would give it an identity apart from other howitzers. "Massive single nuke" certainly fit the B4 thematically, but I don't think it was something that could really stay as it was.

All howitzers are pretty AIDS to begin with, though.

The B-4 doesn't deserve to be reworked. Its an intentionally designed death cannon that largely had an impact in only team games, and hitting a tank with a direct hit was extremely rare to begin with. I have no justification for the existence of this gun, other than it's unique, memey purpose. Whats more, it needs the accurate shot back, but it does less damage to compensate and not insta kill tanks. Whatever the solution may be, it is not what the modders thought up of.

Might as well give it confetti instead, I'd rather have an useless artillery piece that MIGHT be completely busted, and not this three shot noob trap
Pip
4 Apr 2021, 01:31 AM
#142
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594


The B-4 doesn't deserve to be reworked. Its an intentionally designed death cannon that largely had an impact in only team games, and hitting a tank with a direct hit was extremely rare to begin with. I have no justification for the existence of this gun, other than it's unique, memey purpose. Whats more, it needs the accurate shot back, but it does less damage to compensate and not insta kill tanks. Whatever the solution may be, it is not what the modders thought up of.

Might as well give it confetti instead, I'd rather have an useless artillery piece that MIGHT be completely busted, and not this three shot noob trap


It'd be even more useless if it /couldnt/ oneshot mediums, though. It's just a dumb memegun that inhabits a pretty bad design space; Major changes are needed to make it anything less than a retarded and frustrating gimmick, I feel.
4 Apr 2021, 02:13 AM
#143
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 786 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Apr 2021, 01:31 AMPip


It'd be even more useless if it /couldnt/ oneshot mediums, though. It's just a dumb memegun that inhabits a pretty bad design space; Major changes are needed to make it anything less than a retarded and frustrating gimmick, I feel.

the standard shot remains the same, but the vet1 precision hit deals 70 to 80% of maximum health of a medium and heavy, so it doesnt ohk but doesn't disappoint either


or just return the OLD B-4 vet ability, German armor doesn't deserve a fair war. Plus actually hitting anything other than OKW structures would be pretty hard even with precision shot, unless the axis don't move
4 Apr 2021, 14:34 PM
#144
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2


KV-2 does not underperform in any way... You may be using it wrong, but it is very good unit that murders infantry and fends off tanks below panther.


jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2021, 22:01 PMNapalm
Give the KV2 purpose and love!


Look, I get that I'm bad at the game and I'll never get good, but are you sure the KV-2 is balanced and has a clearly defined role?
4 Apr 2021, 14:40 PM
#145
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Apr 2021, 14:34 PMNapalm




Look, I get that I'm bad at the game and I'll never get good, but are you sure the KV-2 is balanced and has a clearly defined role?


Id say it has. It great heavy tank that turns infantry to mush and makes any medium scale tank regret coming in front of it. It has infantry fighting boost and can become effectively mobile ml 20 with the ability to stay in place to increase range and reload.

So it can be breakthrough tank or defensive powerhouse, depending what units you surround it with. Only real limitations come when vs other heavy tanks, but its not as big issue when you build army to help against that.
4 Apr 2021, 15:33 PM
#146
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919



Id say it has. It great heavy tank that turns infantry to mush and makes any medium scale tank regret coming in front of it. It has infantry fighting boost and can become effectively mobile ml 20 with the ability to stay in place to increase range and reload.

So it can be breakthrough tank or defensive powerhouse, depending what units you surround it with. Only real limitations come when vs other heavy tanks, but its not as big issue when you build army to help against that.


You should know what you are talking about:

1) It doesn't turn infantry to mush. It has same MGs as T34/76, the main cannon is the same too but with 0,5 seconds higher ROF. T34/76 is much more cost efficient at dealing damage to infantry. You get the first earlier by far and the second not much after your first KV-1.

2) Range doesn't get increased with Hull-down. That is part of the problem. You have a 40 Range meat shield that just got shot from 60 range PAK/JPIV or 50 range Raketen/Panther. Free Vet for opponent.

Overall with the current nerf its just nort worth it anymore. You want a decent doctrinal soviet tank for medium fights and AI that can take on a Panther if paired? I would go for T34/85 any day.
4 Apr 2021, 15:53 PM
#147
avatar of Array
Donator 11

Posts: 609



You should know what you are talking about:

1) It doesn't turn infantry to mush. It has same MGs as T34/76, the main cannon is the same too but with 0,5 seconds higher ROF. T34/76 is much more cost efficient at dealing damage to infantry. You get the first earlier by far and the second not much after your first KV-1.

2) Range doesn't get increased with Hull-down. That is part of the problem. You have a 40 Range meat shield that just got shot from 60 range PAK/JPIV or 50 range Raketen/Panther. Free Vet for opponent.

Overall with the current nerf its just nort worth it anymore. You want a decent doctrinal soviet tank for medium fights and AI that can take on a Panther if paired? I would go for T34/85 any day.


they are discussing the KV2
4 Apr 2021, 16:00 PM
#148
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Apr 2021, 15:53 PMArray


they are discussing the KV2


Sorry, I apologize. My bad. I got missleaded because he talked about the reload increase which sounded like a buff which KW-1 gets with hull-down.

Other than KW-1 the KW-2 is a good tank actually.
4 Apr 2021, 16:17 PM
#149
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

wow been using b4 every game... thing is trash now. aoe sucks bad and shots dont do damage to tanks and structure. sometimes it looks like the shells hit almost direct or very close and itll blow ur mind that u didnt do any damange and have to wait a long time for another barrage. b4 should shoot a little faster if 1 or 3 shell only are being fired compared to 8-10 shells firing at all these different spots giving u a chance to hit more things making it more effective. and the scatter on b4 is so bad. the shells sometimes go outside of the circle.
we need to try changing the aoe so it does more aoe dmg when farther from impact.and increase shell damage to like 400.
4 Apr 2021, 16:56 PM
#150
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Apr 2021, 14:34 PMNapalm




Look, I get that I'm bad at the game and I'll never get good, but are you sure the KV-2 is balanced and has a clearly defined role?

Yes.
Its basically soviet brummbar that can fight tanks.
4 Apr 2021, 17:02 PM
#151
avatar of HelpingHans
Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 1838 | Subs: 17

Personally tested the B4 with the changes and I'm not liking it tbh. It feels so meh now with the 3 shots and the direct fire shot also does 300 damage as well now so that ability is practically useless.
4 Apr 2021, 17:08 PM
#152
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

the 3 shot barrage should be a second option if u dont want a stronger single shell barrage. and oh yea that vehicle shot is weak atm. the 80 second countdown is way to long 55-60 secs should be the count down
4 Apr 2021, 17:47 PM
#153
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Apr 2021, 07:39 AMMMX
I've tried out the new B-4 in the commander revamp beta and also got somewhat mixed results, so i dug a bit deeper. if you visualize the old vs new aoe profile, the reason for these underwhelming results - especially against vehicles - becomes pretty obvious


Near range will likely be moved from 0 to 2 (with some adjustment to mid) to increase damage dealt to vehicles by near misses. I guess Direct Fire will need its own profile that deals a bit more damage.
4 Apr 2021, 17:48 PM
#154
avatar of Todore

Posts: 15

I think preventing Vickers K drop is too much baby sitting. It is a change directed specifically towards very rare scenarios where teammates share weapons. You are nerfing THE PLAYER by limiting control, not THE GUN.

I think chasing little unintended features and strategies takes way too much time and is futile because there are way too many unintended features in this game.

Going after usf vehicle sharing, M4 Sherman dozer upgrade exploit, and other similar unintended features will take forever and feels silly from the balance team to go after.

A lot of this is very rare and benefits teamwork and coordination. I see these exploits as a good thing not a bad thing. Dropping a Vickers K for your soviet teammate should be rewarded because the UKF player is looking out for his teammates.

A OST player dropping a med bunker on a Mechanized OKW player is a similar scenario. You don't want to somehow prevent this exploit because it is unintended.

No, it should be rewarded.

Don't kill creativity in the game. That is where balance team should draw the line. Very few people are happy to see halftrack Vickers drop being nerfed. This is an incredible blow to the incentive to buy this halftrack.

Balance team should focus on balancing units themselves, not considering rare scenarios of things happening. It is very silly.

"We have changed X because in these rare circumstances it can be used in an unintended way." I think this is extremely silly because there are a million unintended things you can do and thus futile.

Tldr don't nerf strategies, coordination, creativity, or power/control of players. Nerf the tools instead. You can nerf the Vickers, but don't remove ability for players to share them, that is specifically removing player control and coordination which is almost always bad design.


+1
4 Apr 2021, 17:49 PM
#155
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

m4c shermans main gun misses infantry to often on multipurpose rounds.
Pip
4 Apr 2021, 17:52 PM
#156
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

m4c shermans main gun misses infantry to often on multipurpose rounds.


What, more than any other tank?
4 Apr 2021, 17:55 PM
#157
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Apr 2021, 17:52 PMPip


What, more than any other tank?

it dont have much aoe in the shot and scatter sucks unlike for example a p4
4 Apr 2021, 18:16 PM
#158
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

the 120mm mortar barrage is better. the delayed fuse for 30 muni is hardly worth spending the muni on tbh and the 120mm auto fire is soooo slow. the new 152 howitzer barrage takes a long time to start maybe like 5-6 secs? and it only rains a fews shells i was laughing for spending 150 munis on that. i rather have a real 152 howitzer shooting for free.... ur basically paying 150 for a howi barrage
Pip
4 Apr 2021, 18:27 PM
#159
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594


it dont have much aoe in the shot and scatter sucks unlike for example a p4


I just checked the statistics, and you're right! For whatever reason the M4C has some pretty terrible scatter/AOE stats. I wonder why? It's basically just a slightly worse t34/85 in most respects, isnt it?
4 Apr 2021, 18:30 PM
#160
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Apr 2021, 18:27 PMPip


I just checked the statistics, and you're right! For whatever reason the M4C has some pretty terrible scatter/AOE stats. I wonder why? It's basically just a slightly worse t34/85 in most respects, isnt it?

it got nerfed a while back and meanwhile after so many patches it fell behind alot more. what are the stats of the m4c btw?
also for the motherland ability loses 35% accuracy to only gain 10% evasion. add a rate of fire bonus or something in there for 10%.
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