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UKF Commander Revamp 2021

8 Mar 2021, 10:38 AM
#21
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1201

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 18:50 PMVipper

Strafing Support ability is OP especially combined with a commander that has super heavy.

But Tiger with stuka loiter sounds balanced
8 Mar 2021, 10:57 AM
#22
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1201

Advanced Emplacement Regiment

CP 0 Defensive Operations

CP 3 Advanced Assembly

CP 3 Improved Fortification

CP 8 25 pounder emplacment (model from all units mod)

CP 10 Precision Barrage 200 MU



25 Pounder emplacment
- same HP like Lefh or Mł20
- cant brace
- same price like Lefh or mł20
- cant be improved


8 Mar 2021, 11:19 AM
#23
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 18:50 PMVipper
Strafing Support ability is OP especially combined with a commander that has super heavy.

Then one of these should be removed from Lightning War Doctrine.
We can replace Tiger with 250 or P4J.
8 Mar 2021, 11:42 AM
#24
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 18:50 PMVipper
Strafing Support ability is OP especially combined with a commander that has super heavy


The ability sends 1 AI plane with pretty good damage/suppression (but it can only target one squad) and 1 incredibly inaccurate AT plane that can't hit the broadside of a barn. What exactly do you think is so OP about this?
8 Mar 2021, 11:57 AM
#25
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8



The ability sends 1 AI plane with pretty good damage/suppression (but it can only target one squad) and 1 incredibly inaccurate AT plane that can't hit the broadside of a barn. What exactly do you think is so OP about this?

The usual - its existence on allied side.
8 Mar 2021, 14:30 PM
#26
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13262 | Subs: 1


But Tiger with stuka loiter sounds balanced

It might sound to you but it does not sound balance to me.

I have pointed out it for the last 3 years since the previous commander revamp.

But why are you going off topic and talking about an ostheer commander and ability in thread about UKF commanders.

Then one of these should be removed from Lightning War Doctrine.
We can replace Tiger with 250 or P4J.

Read above
8 Mar 2021, 14:35 PM
#27
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13262 | Subs: 1



The ability sends 1 AI plane with pretty good damage/suppression (but it can only target one squad) and 1 incredibly inaccurate AT plane that can't hit the broadside of a barn. What exactly do you think is so OP about this?

It is my opinion that Super heavies commanders should not have CP12/200+mu abilities available to them.
8 Mar 2021, 15:01 PM
#28
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 14:35 PMVipper
It is my opinion that Super heavies commanders should not have CP12/200+mu abilities available to them.


Fair enough (I don't agree), but that has nothing to do with the ability itself though. You specifically said the ability itself was OP, but based on performance tests, it's actually quite underwhelming.

I also wouldn't call the Churchill Crocodile a superheavy.
8 Mar 2021, 15:16 PM
#29
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13262 | Subs: 1


Fair enough (I don't agree), but that has nothing to do with the ability itself though. You specifically said the ability itself was OP, but based on performance tests, it's actually quite underwhelming.

The ability is probably inconsistent as many loiter is games I have seen it change the coarse of battles and it is stronger then the IL-2 loiter its closest equivalent.

In games have seen it change the course of battle possibly because rocket can obliterate infatry by accident.

In any case loiter planes the can protect the Super heavy vehicles in combat should not be available imo.

These abilities should be reserved for commander that do not have other powerful abilities.

I also wouldn't call the Churchill Crocodile a superheavy.

It meets my criteria and Relics for a "super heavy". Similar CP, tech requirement, cost and as Tigers/IS-2/Persings and ost importantly limited to 1.

Is it a good as Tiger or IS-2? I think not but that another point. Once Super heavies are separate from power full off maps one can balance both easier.

For instance Stuka was nerfed because it was available with Elefant and now is performance (other the smoke) it inferior to other off map of its CP and Cost when it should simply not be available in the commander.

If I remember correctly the Croc also received nerfs (HP?) which could be avoided if the rest of commander abilities where not strong.
8 Mar 2021, 17:14 PM
#30
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 15:16 PMVipper
It meets my criteria and Relics for a "super heavy". Similar CP, tech requirement, cost and as Tigers/IS-2/Persings and ost importantly limited to 1.


Relic's criteria list them as normal heavies.

Heavies have a specific wreck value. Super heavies have another one.
8 Mar 2021, 18:01 PM
#31
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 15:16 PMVipper
It meets my criteria and Relics for a "super heavy". Similar CP, tech requirement, cost and as Tigers/IS-2/Persings and ost importantly limited to 1.


If tech, cost and CP requirements are the criteria, and by that criteria the Tiger/IS-2/Pershing are superheavies, then what are the ISU-152, Elefant, Jagdtiger and Tiger II? Super superheavies?

Imo IS-2/Tiger/Pershing are generalist heavies. Sturmtiger and AVRE are specialist heavies. KV-2 and Crocodile are somewhere in between. Superheavies are the tanks that are clearly one tier up in regards to durability and/or firepower, i.e. the ones listed above, although you could also make a further distinction between superheavy tank, heavy tank destroyers and heavy assault gun.


Anyway, having both a powerful offmap/loiter and a heavy in the same commander is fine in my opinion, as long as the overal power level of the commander doesn't rise too high. Jaeger Armor and the ISU commanders had their offmaps removed because it made them too versatile as a whole, not because the particular combination of two abilities was too powerful. Commanders like Lighting War or Vanguard are fine. Commanders need to be attractive and powerful to be competitive and fun.
8 Mar 2021, 18:11 PM
#32
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1191 | Subs: 1

The only thing I would say about "Hold the Line," is that it needs some QoL fixes. For such an expensive ability, you need to jump through like 4 hoops to get it to work right.

1) From what I remember, the ability only works on sectors you yourself captured, so it does not help your teammates in teamgames. This essentially makes the ability worthless outside of 1v1 (which is quite silly for one of the most expensive abilities in the game.)

2) The commander icon should do a better job of informing you when the air support will arrive. It's hard to plan around currently.

3) Personally, I feel like the ability works better as a defend/ counterattack ability, so I feel like the planes should target enemies in your territory or in adjacent enemy territory. This would also make the strafe easier to work with, instead of the ability just being a stupidly expensive global buff.
8 Mar 2021, 19:07 PM
#33
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13262 | Subs: 1

...
1) From what I remember, the ability only works on sectors you yourself captured, so it does not help your teammates in teamgames. This essentially makes the ability worthless outside of 1v1 (which is quite silly for one of the most expensive abilities in the game.)

...

This has been fixed and not works for all front-line sectors check patch notes in bugs.
8 Mar 2021, 19:16 PM
#34
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1191 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 19:07 PMVipper

This has been fixed and not works for all front-line sectors check patch notes in bugs.


Cool! That's what I get for only paying attention to the fun bits :P
8 Mar 2021, 19:18 PM
#35
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13262 | Subs: 1



... Commanders need to be attractive and powerful to be competitive and fun.

Commanders need to be at similar power level so that all of them see some use instead of having 1-3 commanders over and over again
8 Mar 2021, 19:24 PM
#36
avatar of madin2

Posts: 197

Things that should changed

Special Weapons Regiment

Resupply Halftrack since vickers-k is a clone of the bren make it the same cost 60 mun --> 45 or give it some unique statistics to justify its higer cost

piat drop should also cost 45 mun know (i honestly don't know if they already lowered since the winter patch)

Hold the line, i rather would like to see them do only give a defense Bonus and remove the loiter planes and lower its cost to match other buff ability (60 mun i believe 6cp)

replace conecntrade Fire Operation with precision Barrage from Advaced Emplacement Regiment

Tactical Support Regiment

lower the cp requirements for the re recovery squad from 1 to 0 cp since engineers can be built now direct from the start

Vanguard Operations Regiment

Replace the medics from the gilder with the current medics with aoe healing since the gilder medics are bugged

Mobile Assault Regiment

Infiltration Commandos start with 5 men but with the same gun as tommys and needs to be upgraded for stens like the storm trooper squad. This lower its ambush capability right when the spawn, for example next to a enemy sniper and also allow it, to make them a proper long range squad with bren from the weapon rack.

Land Mattres need either a buff by lower its cooldown and remove its negative damage modifier against cover or make it non doctrional and replace it with precision Barrage from Advaced Emplacement Regiment

Commando Regiment

Air Supremacy Operation, lower its price and impact time, therefor give them maybe only 2 bombers rather then the recon, strafing and 3 bombers
8 Mar 2021, 19:30 PM
#37
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13262 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 19:24 PMmadin2

...
Infiltration Commandos start with 5 men but with the same gun as tommys and needs to be upgraded for stens like the storm trooper squad. This lower its ambush capability right when the spawn, for example next to a enemy sniper and also allow it, to make them a proper long range squad with bren from the weapon rack.
...

3 enfield and 2 Commando bren would make not make the "proper long range". It would make them superior to Obers.
8 Mar 2021, 19:33 PM
#38
avatar of madin2

Posts: 197

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 19:30 PMVipper

3 enfield and 2 Commando bren would make not make the "proper long range". It would make them superior to Obers.


yes but they are doctrinal, cost more, have less veterancy buffs and would better fit the bren "experts" level which is right now a bad design and barely seen
8 Mar 2021, 19:35 PM
#39
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1191 | Subs: 1

I dont know if the commando models have the correct animations, but IRL british commando teams made good use of the m1 garand, vickers lmg, and other lesser seen weapons. I would love to make the infiltration commandos spawn as a 4-5 man squad with elite m1 garands, with an upgrade to 2x vickers lmg or 2x sniper enfields. That way they are a bit more different than regular commandos.
8 Mar 2021, 20:02 PM
#40
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 19:24 PMmadin2
Special Weapons Regiment

Resupply Halftrack since vickers-k is a clone of the bren make it the same cost 60 mun --> 45 or give it some unique statistics to justify its higer cost


Afaik vickers k is about 15% better than bren.

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 19:24 PMmadin2
Tactical Support Regiment

lower the cp requirements for the re recovery squad from 1 to 0 cp since engineers can be built now direct from the start


Good one.

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 19:24 PMmadin2
Mobile Assault Regiment

Infiltration Commandos start with 5 men but with the same gun as tommys and needs to be upgraded for stens like the storm trooper squad. This lower its ambush capability right when the spawn, for example next to a enemy sniper and also allow it, to make them a proper long range squad with bren from the weapon rack.


Just no, 5x tommy enfields are far stronger than stormtrooper's 4x grenadier k98s (~14 vs 9 dps at long range, if https://coh2.serealia.ca/ is right) so there is still a lot of ambush potential, especially against snipers.
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