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Sturmtiger... why?

11 Feb 2021, 18:42 PM
#101
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 163

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2021, 18:25 PMPip


The Stuka is significantly less effective vs blobs as opposed to other rocket artillery such as the Panzerwerfer (Due to the Werfer's much larger area of effect) or the Katyusha (Due to the speed at which rockets arrive on target). If you are managing to Stuka a blob your opponent is terrible, as the linear nature of the Stuka's projectiles, and the slow speed at which it reaches the target, gives an opponent more than enough time to react, particularly if you're positing that they are able to simply dodge AVRE and Sturmtiger shots perfectly. You are also required to predict well in advance of where the blob will even go.

This linear nature is what makes it effective vs team weapons, however. They are far less responsive, and you are able to place shells precisely where the weapons are (Multiple weapons, generally, due to the length of rocket's linear placement). The Stuka is an anti-team weapon platform, not one to deal with blobs.

Also, again, UKF don't have the Stuka.

The AVRE and Sturmtiger are Meme tanks not because they are not "really needed", but because they are extremely cheesy and expensive, and very all-or-nothing.

You anecdotally having "no issue" with a lack of turret doesn't mean it isnt a weakness of the Sturmtiger, and buffing the Sturmtiger turnrate simply does nothing to counter several of the weaknesses I've suggested. I hope you realise that "Five vet" on OKW units is no longer necessarily them being "Better" at vet5 than another faction's equivalent unit at vet3, right? Its primarily a flavour thing... and on top of this, reaching veterancy 5 on a Sturmtiger takes an absolute ton of XP, you arent getting a Vet5 Sturmtiger in every game. Hell, all vet5 on the sturmtiger does is allow it to do what the AVRE can already do (At no risk, due to lacking the Sturmtiger's "lol oops you got abandoned :)))" if it's shot while reloading)

So are you saying you only use and save stuka barrages for team weapons because "the infantry will just dodge it".
UKF don't have stuka, no shit sherlock. That's why they are a different faction with different units and gimmicks.

They are not really needed because they are expensive, had a lot more alternatives.

so you're point is just buff sturmtiger so its better than avre. It is ok it will just cost more fuelto build than it will had ever before

Pip
11 Feb 2021, 19:46 PM
#102
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2021, 18:42 PMLMAO

So are you saying you only use and save stuka barrages for team weapons because "the infantry will just dodge it".



Yes, that is precisely what I do, unless there are no team weapons on the enemy team... at which point i wouldnt have built a Stuka in the first place.


UKF don't have stuka, no shit sherlock. That's why they are a different faction with different units and gimmicks.



These units also were like made to counter support weapons, AT guns? I would just ignore it and fire in their face. If the at gun is well supported then I'll support my sturmtiger too. If that's not possible then just stuka it.



Let's be real here stuka works for team weapon and blobs if you don't use it versus blobs you either had no issues with blobs or just doing something wrong.

There is a reason why the AVRE and the Sturmtiger had the repotation of a meme tank because it is not REALLY needed.


Obviously. But you're talking as though both factions do, and that they can both use it as the faction's "Blob Clear" weapon, where that isnt true in the slightest for UKF, as they don't have the weapon at all, and it isnt true for OKW, as the Stuka is not effective versus enemy blobs.

There is literally no reason to build a Sturmtiger if all you're wanting to kill are team weapons. The Stuka does the job of killing team weapons far better, far more cheaply, far more safely, for a better population economy, and nondoctrinally. The Sturmtiger (And AVRE) are intended as blob-clear, NOT to deal with team weapons.


so you're point is just buff sturmtiger so its better than avre. It is ok it will just cost more fuelto build than it will had ever before


No, my point is that your suggestion; to make the AVRE and Sturmtiger clones, means that the AVRE is inherently then a superior unit, because it has a turret. I'm not sure why you aren't understanding this.
12 Feb 2021, 07:17 AM
#103
avatar of Cinders

Posts: 22

This SturmTiger is complete junk. I just tried it again on a 3v3, and it just kept hitting minor obstacles like a fence or a cart and shielding the blob from most of the impact.

It can't even fire onto a slight elevation, it just kinda *thunks* the round into the side of the incline. So don't fire it near yellow cover, don't fire it up any sort of hill, it can't fire over solid objects. Even aiming at the back end of the units would cause it to fire right into the cart the unit was behind.

Well, if I ever fight a slow moving blob on a perfectly smooth pavement and that blob doesn't manage to throw every satchel imaginable on me from *about the same range as the STiger can fire*... I'll know it was all worthwhile.

I've had crap luck with that and the JagdTiger, seems like they're both glitchy af. I'd prefer if they just remove these gimmick units and make something useful.
12 Feb 2021, 08:01 AM
#104
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3140 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2021, 07:17 AMCinders
This SturmTiger is complete junk. I just tried it again on a 3v3, and it just kept hitting minor obstacles like a fence or a cart and shielding the blob from most of the impact.

It can't even fire onto a slight elevation, it just kinda *thunks* the round into the side of the incline. So don't fire it near yellow cover, don't fire it up any sort of hill, it can't fire over solid objects. Even aiming at the back end of the units would cause it to fire right into the cart the unit was behind.

Well, if I ever fight a slow moving blob on a perfectly smooth pavement and that blob doesn't manage to throw every satchel imaginable on me from *about the same range as the STiger can fire*... I'll know it was all worthwhile.

I've had crap luck with that and the JagdTiger, seems like they're both glitchy af. I'd prefer if they just remove these gimmick units and make something useful.


Well according to some "pros" here that's a learn 2 play issue somehow altho it involves shitty game mechanics more than anything else really but whatever I suppose.

And the community team seems to agree with them so nothing will probably be done about it.

This thread is like beating a dead horse at this point.
12 Feb 2021, 08:18 AM
#105
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793



I don't own nor will I ever probably own an Apple product.

However my father does own an older iPhone from around 2014 from which year I also have a Sony Xperia Z3.

The difference is that my phone has better specifications while his is more expensive, for some "unknown" reason.

Just the other day it's battery also died suddenly simply because it was a bit too cold for it while mine had no such problem, again both phones from around the same time, his being more expensive, mine being cheaper.

Plus as I said previously Apple forcing down software updates on their older products in order to make way for their new ones as you can see here: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3599141/apples-iphone-slowdown-ploy-was-ridiculous-even-by-apple-standards.html

I'm also not sure what you mean with breaking new grounds exactly when as far as I'm aware they're further back than Android phones in terms of features even but since it has more "prestige" to it loyal customers such as yourself I'm guessing keep buying into it thinking that they're superior while just simply paying more for what you'd get in another brand's phones but whatever.

Anyway back to the topic at hand, I believe that there's still a bit of room left to experiment and finally fix, improve or change the Sturmtiger as Olek has proven but it seems like both the developers and community team have given up so whatever is being written here is falling on deaf ears which comes as no surprise.


I dont remember 2014 but recent years, Apple phone cpu are way better than Android. Sony Google or Samsung whatever are 1-2 years behind Apple cpu.

As for Sturm, i vote for asymmetry, no need to make it like Brumbar or Avre. Personally i dont play Okw, but i seen 2v2 games where Sturm did ok. If it is worse than Brum or Aver, i rather decrease it costs or upkeep rather than change its specs. Imo
Pip
12 Feb 2021, 13:21 PM
#106
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2021, 07:17 AMCinders
This SturmTiger is complete junk. I just tried it again on a 3v3, and it just kept hitting minor obstacles like a fence or a cart and shielding the blob from most of the impact.

It can't even fire onto a slight elevation, it just kinda *thunks* the round into the side of the incline. So don't fire it near yellow cover, don't fire it up any sort of hill, it can't fire over solid objects. Even aiming at the back end of the units would cause it to fire right into the cart the unit was behind.

Well, if I ever fight a slow moving blob on a perfectly smooth pavement and that blob doesn't manage to throw every satchel imaginable on me from *about the same range as the STiger can fire*... I'll know it was all worthwhile.

I've had crap luck with that and the JagdTiger, seems like they're both glitchy af. I'd prefer if they just remove these gimmick units and make something useful.


The trick is to always fire behind where you "want" the shell to land, because it always falls short. Doing so makes it much more reliable. Elevation differences makes this more tricky.

I'm not saying this is a good thing to have to do, as A. Soldier has stated, this is kind of an unintuitive game mechanic/"strategy" to have to make use of, and I'd prefer it to be changed... but while it isnt, this is how you make the Sturm (or AVRE) much more reliable/usable.

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2021, 08:18 AMmrgame2


I dont remember 2014 but recent years, Apple phone cpu are way better than Android. Sony Google or Samsung whatever are 1-2 years behind Apple cpu.

As for Sturm, i vote for asymmetry, no need to make it like Brumbar or Avre. Personally i dont play Okw, but i seen 2v2 games where Sturm did ok. If it is worse than Brum or Aver, i rather decrease it costs or upkeep rather than change its specs. Imo


A: "Better" in what way. What exactly makes an Apple processor "Better" than an "Android" processor?

B: You don't play OKW, but you've "seen" 2v2 games where it did "ok", so this makes the unit fine as it is? Second-hand "experience" isnt much of a yardstick for balance.
12 Feb 2021, 14:05 PM
#107
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2021, 13:21 PMPip


The trick is to always fire behind where you "want" the shell to land, because it always falls short. Doing so makes it much more reliable. Elevation differences makes this more tricky.

I'm not saying this is a good thing to have to do, as A. Soldier has stated, this is kind of an unintuitive game mechanic/"strategy" to have to make use of, and I'd prefer it to be changed... but while it isnt, this is how you make the Sturm (or AVRE) much more reliable/usable.



A: "Better" in what way. What exactly makes an Apple processor "Better" than an "Android" processor?

B: You don't play OKW, but you've "seen" 2v2 games where it did "ok", so this makes the unit fine as it is? Second-hand "experience" isnt much of a yardstick for balance.


Apple Ax processor are measurable a year or 2 ahead of andriod qualcom/exynos/mediatek. It is all out there.

Well i did say the balance on Sturm is better off tweaking its costs/upkeep rather than its stats. If it is under performing than make it cheaper of sorts.
12 Feb 2021, 14:22 PM
#108
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

stop this Apple crap discussion.
12 Feb 2021, 19:29 PM
#109
avatar of Cinders

Posts: 22

You guys are right, it will probably sit as afk as a "glitchy af unit" until enough attention is garnered that it is not working or, better yet, someone figures out how to exploit its glitched mechanics.

But thanks for the advice. I've tried aiming at the far BACK END of the enemy units and it just punts the round into the dirt well short of that. I'd love to have my replay where I hit a 3 squad blob in the open... and only 1 rifleman died, leaving 17/18 to keep going. That brave, brave rifleman absorbed that 30 megaton blast for the rest of his unit!
Pip
12 Feb 2021, 20:50 PM
#110
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2021, 19:29 PMCinders
You guys are right, it will probably sit as afk as a "glitchy af unit" until enough attention is garnered that it is not working or, better yet, someone figures out how to exploit its glitched mechanics.

But thanks for the advice. I've tried aiming at the far BACK END of the enemy units and it just punts the round into the dirt well short of that. I'd love to have my replay where I hit a 3 squad blob in the open... and only 1 rifleman died, leaving 17/18 to keep going. That brave, brave rifleman absorbed that 30 megaton blast for the rest of his unit!


Sorry to say, you might have a little skewed interpretation of what happened in that game. If you actually hit the three squads you 100% would not have killed only a single man, and not even HEAVILY have damaged the other 17.
12 Feb 2021, 21:09 PM
#111
avatar of Olekman
Modmaker Badge

Posts: 208

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2021, 20:50 PMPip


Sorry to say, you might have a little skewed interpretation of what happened in that game. If you actually hit the three squads you 100% would not have killed only a single man, and not even HEAVILY have damaged the other 17.


I think he meant that the round fell way shorter than it should, which is indeed the case when Sturmtiger is on a slope. The steepness also affects how much short it will fall, so it's not like you can memorize where it will land in regard to target reticle.
12 Feb 2021, 22:18 PM
#112
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2021, 21:09 PMOlekman
I think he meant that the round fell way shorter than it should, which is indeed the case when Sturmtiger is on a slope. The steepness also affects how much short it will fall, so it's not like you can memorize where it will land in regard to target reticle.


That's why you simply shouldn't use the Sturmtiger on maps with a lot of elevation, the same way you don't use a Jagdtiger in urban maps or a Tiger on Red Ball Express.
12 Feb 2021, 22:34 PM
#113
avatar of Olekman
Modmaker Badge

Posts: 208



That's why you simply shouldn't use the Sturmtiger on maps with a lot of elevation, the same way you don't use a Jagdtiger in urban maps or a Tiger on Red Ball Express.


Agreed, but the latter is by design, the former by buggy behaviour. I assume that many players don't know that Sturmtiger undershoots while on a slope.
Pip
12 Feb 2021, 22:38 PM
#114
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



That's why you simply shouldn't use the Sturmtiger on maps with a lot of elevation, the same way you don't use a Jagdtiger in urban maps or a Tiger on Red Ball Express.


The problem is that from the default perspective, it's sometimes difficult to ascertain how rough terrain actually is. The Sturmtiger's issue with wobbly maps is one of those "downsides" that only really exists because of an oversight.
27 Feb 2021, 04:27 AM
#115
avatar of Cinders

Posts: 22

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2021, 22:38 PMPip


The problem is that from the default perspective, it's sometimes difficult to ascertain how rough terrain actually is. The Sturmtiger's issue with wobbly maps is one of those "downsides" that only really exists because of an oversight.


This ^

Honestly, it's just broken. Even a patch notes said "unable to fix" about the trajectories.
1 Mar 2021, 13:42 PM
#116
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 465

Sturm tiger is fine, just l2p
Also you can multiple sturmtigers if abuse the reload bug
1 Mar 2021, 16:07 PM
#117
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3140 | Subs: 2

Sturm tiger is fine, just l2p
Also you can multiple sturmtigers if abuse the reload bug


So going by your logic the USF pop cap exploit was also fine and people just needed to learn on how to abuse it regularly with the decrewing of vehicle crews?

Just brilliant.
Pip
1 Mar 2021, 16:44 PM
#118
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



So going by your logic the USF pop cap exploit was also fine and people just needed to learn on how to abuse it regularly with the decrewing of vehicle crews?

Just brilliant.


The old Faust bug, wherein they would routinely misfire if your gren was too close to the vehicle, was also "fine" by the same logic he's using.
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