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[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

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27 Nov 2020, 11:39 AM
#41
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



The T-34/76 is widely regarded as a good tank that is very cost effective and very good when deployed in critical mass, which isn't hard to achieve given its low cost.


its has the anti infantry of a panzer 4 while being completely helpless against armor for a 30% fuel discount... while costing even more fuel to deploy than a panzer 4 initially due to expensive soviet teching and AT nade/molotov sidetechs
27 Nov 2020, 11:42 AM
#42
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2020, 11:30 AMgbem


i wonder how you can say that when you barely even play the soviets but ok...

the T-34-76 is basically a light tank with more HP and armor that comes later/takes more fuel to field than proper mediums like the panzer 4 despite being outright inferior... I'm sorry but the panzer 4 and sherman are both a whole league better than the T-34-76 and the Cromwell and no amount of bias is gonna change that...


There you go, now pliz share your player card.

If you can't understand that both the sherman and the pz4 cost 22%/33% more than a T-34/76 and thus it's performance matches it's pricetag, I can't help you further.
27 Nov 2020, 11:45 AM
#43
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2020, 11:13 AMKatitof


If you are against this change, you clearly are clueless on why its there.
Neither pios nor CEs are combat units(inb4 semantic war on CEs name), neither one performs good in ANY way in mid and late game without flamer and neither one benefits from accuracy in any way with flamer.
Accuracy vet on both was pointless, because everything roflstomps them anyway, rec acc helps them both survive and do their actual job in late game - sweep mines and repair units.

I see that being banned did not help improve yourself in anyway and you still projecting you flaws into others.

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2020, 11:13 AMKatitof

If you think they get anywhere close to cons in durability, re-run your excel sheets and check the actual values cons get.

Once again you are proven wrong:

Conscript entity vet 3:
Target size: 0.71

CE entity suggest vet 3:
Target size: 0.77

Now can pls stop derailing a feedback thread with your personal attacks?
27 Nov 2020, 11:45 AM
#44
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



There you go, now pliz share your player card.

If you can't understand that both the sherman and the pz4 cost 22%/33% more than a T-34/76 and thus it's performance matches it's pricetag, I can't help you further.


its soo price inefficient that 3 T-34-76s cost more than 2 panzer 4s but will lose 5/5 times in a fight frontally at any distance despite costing more than the P4...

and again you're ignoring soviet teching... it takes around the same fuel to buy an ostheer panzer 4 and a T-34....
27 Nov 2020, 11:53 AM
#45
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

total fuel cost to T-34
T1/2 + ATnade/molly + T3 + T4 + 90 fuel

10/15+10+10+85+90+90 = 300 fuel

total cost to Panzer 4
T1 + BP1 + T2 + BP2 + 125 fuel
10+40+20+105+125 = 300 fuel


but yeah sure "balance"
27 Nov 2020, 11:53 AM
#46
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



The camo for the SU-76 actually has no reload bonus, even with what the ability guide might suggest. Only the turreted vehicles get that specific bonus in Tank Hunter doctrine. The ability also requires more setup time than similar abilities. It takes like 3 seconds until all the 'bushes' around the SU76 are planted and it camoes, so the bonusses are fine.

So having 192/204/216 penetration on SU-76 and 90% chance to score natural hit at range 60 on vet 1 SU-76 when RW and JP get no bonus with vet 1 camo is fine? I would say that as vet 1 ability it is far superior.

And why make the ability difficult to use with lock in place and rotation penalty? People will simply not use the ability the same way they do not use the RW/JP camo most of the time.

Simply remove the penalties of the ability and lower the bonus to a sight bonus and the ability will see more use.
27 Nov 2020, 12:09 PM
#47
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

I am good with the maxim mortar engies m5 scoutcar and the zis barrage.

The su76 new vet ability i am not sure what it will achive. Its still a paper weight light to med at and quickly becomes less impactfull
Same with penals. They should be more about dishing out a punch with an ai upgrade or a actual nade and cons about taking the punch wich they do just fine atm. Maybe let penals get a 7th man as wel with some vet nerfs/rework idk.

The triple t70 nefs with no compensating buff to either cons or penals worries me.

Putting the suicide of the t34-76 behind vet is baffeling. Just give it something like blitz or overdrive. It doesnt have the dps hp armour or pen to make it overpowered imo.
27 Nov 2020, 12:14 PM
#48
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

the maxim still isnt that good imo... feels unfair to pay 15 munitions to do what other machineguns can do for free without an initial startup delay... at least make the ability free and activate instantaneously that ways maxims still have "micro tax" but at least compete fairly against other machineguns....
27 Nov 2020, 12:18 PM
#49
avatar of TomDRV

Posts: 112

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2020, 11:45 AMgbem


its soo price inefficient that 3 T-34-76s cost more than 2 panzer 4s but will lose 5/5 times in a fight frontally at any distance despite costing more than the P4...

and again you're ignoring soviet teching... it takes around the same fuel to buy an ostheer panzer 4 and a T-34....


Everyone's gotta remember that the units don't exist in a void. The real question should be:

"for the same resources and popcap, can I field unit(s) that can counter the unit(s) in question."

So whatever state the T34 may be in, if the difference in resource cost between that and a P4 nullifies the P4s advantage when expended. Then it is balanced.

e.g A t34 & an AT gun

Obviously it will never be an exact science and an AT gun can't move like a tank, but that asymmetry is what makes the factions different. And depending on the no. of units of a type deployed the enemy, your force composition may have pivot to other solutions like SU-85s to maintain the approx. equal power level because unit specialization and economies of scale/numbers also play a role.
27 Nov 2020, 12:21 PM
#50
avatar of Dharx

Posts: 83



The T-34/76 is widely regarded as a good tank that is very cost effective and very good when deployed in critical mass, which isn't hard to achieve given its low cost.


It's not regarded as a good tank, more like a cost efficient tank for anti-infantry roles specifically. I can assure you that if SOV somehow had stock access to P4, T34 would see almost no use. 30 extra fuel is a small price to pay for the option to reliably threaten enemy medium armour without the need to spend on specialist units.
27 Nov 2020, 12:29 PM
#51
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Dshk
Replace sprint ability with AP rounds.
27 Nov 2020, 12:36 PM
#52
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2020, 12:18 PMTomDRV

"for the same resources and popcap, can I field unit(s) that can counter the unit(s) in question."


yes exactly... for the same investment in fuel and manpower assuming the T-70 and the 222/FHT are skipped the soviets would be fielding 1 T-34 and a zis or 2 for the same cost as a P4 and a pak 40 or 2...

and then you have to consider that ostheer still has pgrens which means SOV is gonna be in a lot of shit if they try to rush the T-34 without the T-70...
27 Nov 2020, 12:46 PM
#53
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2020, 12:21 PMDharx

I can assure you that if SOV somehow had stock access to P4, T34 would see almost no use. 30 extra fuel is a small price to pay for the option to reliably threaten enemy medium armour without the need to spend on specialist units.


@Sanders93 this is EXACTLY the point....
27 Nov 2020, 13:03 PM
#54
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Increase XP value of Su-76 since it is too low
27 Nov 2020, 13:09 PM
#55
avatar of Elaindil

Posts: 97

27 Nov 2020, 13:14 PM
#56
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2020, 11:53 AMVipper

So having 192/204/216 penetration on SU-76 and 90% chance to score natural hit at range 60 on vet 1 SU-76 when RW and JP get no bonus with vet 1 camo is fine? I would say that as vet 1 ability it is far superior.

And why make the ability difficult to use with lock in place and rotation penalty? People will simply not use the ability the same way they do not use the RW/JP camo most of the time.

Simply remove the penalties of the ability and lower the bonus to a sight bonus and the ability will see more use.


The SU76s peers, the Puma, AEC, Staurt and Stug3Gs all get quite nifty abilities that aid them in disrupting enemy armor and they can be used agressively. The SU76 gets a high pen opening volley, but it can't be used offensively.

Besides, if we are going to talk about vet abilities being better on some units than others, the T34s want to have a word with you.
27 Nov 2020, 13:42 PM
#58
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Based on what?

On XP value of other similar units and of the speed that this unit vet in game.
27 Nov 2020, 13:45 PM
#59
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



The SU76s peers, the Puma, AEC, Staurt and Stug3Gs all get quite nifty abilities that aid them in disrupting enemy armor and they can be used agressively. The SU76 gets a high pen opening volley, but it can't be used offensively.

Besides, if we are going to talk about vet abilities being better on some units than others, the T34s want to have a word with you.

The issues is not how powerful it is but the combination of being too power and player unfriendly.

Having a unit locked in position and having reduced rotation will make the ability unattractive the same way the tank hunter ability is unattractive for TDs.

The suggested changes make the ability more play friendly and it toned down.
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