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Centaur

16 Jul 2020, 19:33 PM
#41
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

I disagree that the Centaur is a bad unit or that it's in a bad spot or that it needs to come earlier. Well I generally disagree with this stupid trend in balancing discussions that everything needs to arrive earlier and every faction needs everything to be accessible, which has led to dumb buffs like Pgrens in T0.

Anyway, the Centaur imo is a victim of the current 1v1 meta, which is to just spam generalist mediums and support them with AT guns.

Another thing is, while Ostwind became murdermachine to the point where it had to had put a limit on affected entities, Centaur was getting nerf after nerf, falling to the level of performance in AI comparable to Cromwell at times and its low speed isn't helping the unit either, its higher armor over ostwind, ironically, helps exclusively against med generalist tanks.
16 Jul 2020, 19:35 PM
#42
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2020, 19:33 PMKatitof

Another thing is, while Ostwind became murdermachine to the point where it had to had put a limit on affected entities, Centaur was getting nerf after nerf, falling to the level of performance in AI comparable to Cromwell at times and its low speed isn't helping the unit either, its higher armor over ostwind, ironically, helps exclusively against med generalist tanks.


Centaur is basically paying for its past sins of being absolutely broken.

I'm not sure how to buff it. I'd personally just buff its vet gain. It's extremely potent at vet 3 from my experience.
16 Jul 2020, 19:39 PM
#43
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



Centaur is basically paying for its past sins of being absolutely broken.

I'm not sure how to buff it. I'd personally just buff its vet gain. It's extremely potent at vet 3 from my experience.

"penance balance" is something I'd rather avoid.
Anyone remembers march deployment patch grens? Should they too suffer for eternity for being batshit OP no skill IWIN unit once?

And vet req decrease might be a way to go.
16 Jul 2020, 19:51 PM
#44
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 211

Interestingly, the way Vipper suggested to buff the centaur is to put it somewhere at the price and powerlevel of a Valentine. Which is an interesting way to do it.

I'd be okay if this tank had a bit more mobility instead of an adjustment
16 Jul 2020, 20:55 PM
#45
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

I would never build a nerfed 280/90 centaur. IMO its performance would not justify delaying a tank at all if it performed any less than it currently does (not saying it's bad, I think it's pretty good especially with vet) and it'd still be a pretty significant delay.
16 Jul 2020, 23:02 PM
#46
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

The narrative that Centaur has has received continues nerfs is simply false the unit has not been touched in years.

Cromwell on the other hand has received a number buffs.
16 Jul 2020, 23:12 PM
#47
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2020, 23:02 PMVipper
The narrative that Centaur has has received continues nerfs is simply false the unit has not been touched in years.

Cromwell on the other hand has received a number buffs.


Last nerf was 2 years ago on december update. It's quite easy to check the update history of that tank. https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/67/coh-2-changelog/p5
+ ctrl-F to search for "Centaur". It's true that it hasn't been touched in years (2) but it's also true that it has been getting nerfed.
17 Jul 2020, 04:38 AM
#48
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682



Last nerf was 2 years ago on december update. It's quite easy to check the update history of that tank. https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/67/coh-2-changelog/p5
+ ctrl-F to search for "Centaur". It's true that it hasn't been touched in years (2) but it's also true that it has been getting nerfed.


It got nerfed because it was batshit op
17 Jul 2020, 08:25 AM
#49
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Last nerf was 2 years ago on december update. It's quite easy to check the update history of that tank. https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/67/coh-2-changelog/p5
+ ctrl-F to search for "Centaur". It's true that it hasn't been touched in years (2) but it's also true that it has been getting nerfed.


As you posted it has not been touched in two years and it a cost efficient unit.

It does need a buff or nerf. Once more the issue started from the buffs to Cromwell AI with out reverting the price to the original 120 and not from Centaur being nerfed.

That makes Cromwell and Centaur have similar prices while Cromwell having enough AI and AT on top of that. That is why the suggestion here is to lower the power level of Centaur.
17 Jul 2020, 09:19 AM
#50
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273



Last nerf was 2 years ago on December update. It's quite easy to check the update history of that tank. https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/67/coh-2-changelog/p5
+ ctrl-F to search for "Centaur". It's true that it hasn't been touched in years (2) but it's also true that it has been getting nerfed.


You're right about UKF having had continuously received the short end of the stick. Also, the Centaur is not the only UKF unit which has had a series of consecutive nerfs. Most of the UKF roaster has had a vast range of continuous shifts to worse over time. The few crutches that were left have also been removed over the past patches. Centaur and Cromwell were at launch unique in their intended design but they have had their knives blunted.
17 Jul 2020, 21:19 PM
#51
avatar of Angrade (Ægion)
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 765 | Subs: 2

When it comes to both the centaur and ostwind, They have to compete in the role of infantry support with the P4/Cromwell. As nice as the centaur is and it performs well, it gets overshadowed by other units. This why I believe both the centaur and ostwind should be a suppression unit rather than a damage focused unit. Sort of like a HMG, but armored. This could also help fighting blobs more effectively as well, suppressing large groups. This would make the unit have a more clear a defined role from its counterparts.
17 Jul 2020, 21:53 PM
#52
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
When it comes to both the centaur and ostwind, They have to compete in the role of infantry support with the P4/Cromwell. As nice as the centaur is and it performs well, it gets overshadowed by other units. This why I believe both the centaur and ostwind should be a suppression unit rather than a damage focused unit. Sort of like a HMG, but armored. This could also help fighting blobs more effectively as well, suppressing large groups. This would make the unit have a more clear a defined role from its counterparts.


+1

I'd love to see that
17 Jul 2020, 22:10 PM
#53
17 Jul 2020, 22:15 PM
#54
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

a suppressing centaur or ostwind sounds

like a joke
17 Jul 2020, 22:16 PM
#55
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

A medium tank that suppresses.

Sounds amazing.

/s
18 Jul 2020, 16:50 PM
#56
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Just ask CoH1 wirbelwind.
19 Jul 2020, 13:42 PM
#57
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682



You're right about UKF having had continuously received the short end of the stick. Also, the Centaur is not the only UKF unit which has had a series of consecutive nerfs. Most of the UKF roaster has had a vast range of continuous shifts to worse over time. The few crutches that were left have also been removed over the past patches. Centaur and Cromwell were at launch unique in their intended design but they have had their knives blunted.


Let's just revert UKF back to release balance and see how many people are going to stick around. It'll be around DoW3 levels within a few weeks I'm sure. Then you can play with your sharp knives with the AI.
19 Jul 2020, 14:07 PM
#58
avatar of Euan

Posts: 177

Centaur by itself needs no buffs/nerfs in any way shape or form.
...
It's extremely situational. And extremely situational units do not get fixed by buffing or nerfing them. They get fixed by changing their environment.


I agree. It's a good unit, there's just almost never a good time to get it in 1v1.

I would rather have a well-microed Crom; get a shot off, take down a model, and maneuver away. The Centaur, you have to just park it in front of infantry squads, and wait for it to randomly fire something between 2 and 20 shots... it's only reliable with the special ability.

So I dunno, increase Crom price to 120, make Centaur fire 5-8 rounds instead of 2-20, then maybe it will seem more attractive.
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