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US Pak Howitzer Is Out Of Control

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25 Jun 2020, 20:00 PM
#121
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2020, 19:26 PMKatitof

Will you stop ignoring the fact that this particular indirect fire is also much more expensive and arrives much later then anything else?

Expensive units that arrive later perform better then cheap early game units.
In case you don't know, this is why Obers beat conscripts.

Why do you write such obvious things? Maybe to draw attention away from the topic?

Pak Howie is problematic. I often feel sorry when using it. Once every couple of minutes it will just wipe sth on autofire. The opposing player can just constantly move support weapons and infantry, which will often mean they just stop shooting, or risk getting wiped. It is just too oppressive. But Scott is similar in this respect. Another allied ability to make sure allies win.
25 Jun 2020, 20:07 PM
#122
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


Why do you write such obvious things?


Clearly its not obvious enough if you write this:

...but the lethality of indirect fire that is just much higher than that of other indirect fire units can br changed.

Most evidently you do not understand why pack howi lethality is higher, so someone needs to tell you this.
25 Jun 2020, 20:08 PM
#123
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2020, 20:07 PMKatitof

Most evidently you do not understand why pack howi lethality is higher, so someone needs to tell you this.

Because it is used against 4 model infantry and 4 men support weapons?
26 Jun 2020, 13:28 PM
#124
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232


Because it is used against 4 model infantry and 4 men support weapons?


Haha that shut him up . How anyone can defend the Pak Howitzer just proves they are utter fanboys.
In my mind it is not even debateable it is OP . The damage and wiping against 4 man squads is utterly ludicrous and should have no place in this game.

And I haven't even mentioned the high explosive and gas attacks that are off the charts.
26 Jun 2020, 13:37 PM
#125
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


Because it is used against 4 model infantry and 4 men support weapons?

So is walking stuka.
And it doesn't care if its 4 man or 6 man squad, it wipes everything equally with pinpoint accuracy.
How come you never complain about that?

More expensive units that arrive later are stronger.
Accept that and learn to not stand in 1 place for 30 seconds when you're being barraged.

@thekingsown10 that's might to say from someone who believes combat engineers are op, I also find it quite ironic that this belief is what you have in common with achpawel.
26 Jun 2020, 13:45 PM
#126
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

#walkawayfromhomingmissile
26 Jun 2020, 13:52 PM
#127
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2020, 13:37 PMKatitof

So is walking stuka.
And it doesn't care if its 4 man or 6 man squad, it wipes everything equally.

More expensive units that arrive later are stronger.
Accept that and learn to not stand in 1 place for 30 seconds when you're being barraged.

@thekingsown10 that's might to say from someone who believes combat engineers are op, I also find it quite ironic that this belief is what you have in common with achpawel.



Reduced to making stuff up now are we. Show me the post where I said combat engineers are op and I will personally send you 500 euros via paypal.. you are a liar clutching at straws because you have nothing else left.
26 Jun 2020, 15:32 PM
#129
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2020, 13:37 PMKatitof

So is walking stuka.


- It is more easy to hunt down a StuKa-zu-Fuß than the Howitzer, Howitzer can be remaned.
- Howitzer often double-shots a support-crew, same StuKa-zu-Fuß. BUT Stuka-zu-Fuß often only killes 2-3 men of a crew per shot, which means waiting for cool-down. Howitzer is cheaper and does even that job better for what it is. (same problem is the Katjusha/Panzerwerfer paradox).

It is funny to see, how often you try to defend broken mechanics. (edit: it doesn't depends on the fraction, fan-boy free talk. But it seems you don't get it)

Start mod-tools, replace leIG18 with Howitzer and start playing. Fun-fact, you are able to neutralize the popular HMG/AT-gun combo with ease.
26 Jun 2020, 15:43 PM
#130
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2020, 13:37 PMKatitof

So is walking stuka.
And it doesn't care if its 4 man or 6 man squad, it wipes everything equally with pinpoint accuracy.
How come you never complain about that?

More expensive units that arrive later are stronger.
Accept that and learn to not stand in 1 place for 30 seconds when you're being barraged.

@thekingsown10 that's might to say from someone who believes combat engineers are op, I also find it quite ironic that this belief is what you have in common with achpawel.

If Pak had a cooldown and only barrage, it would be a good comparison. I understand You want to remove autofire from the Pak Howie?
26 Jun 2020, 16:04 PM
#131
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



- It is more easy to hunt down a StuKa-zu-Fuß than the Howitzer, Howitzer can be remaned.
- Howitzer often double-shots a support-crew, same StuKa-zu-Fuß. BUT Stuka-zu-Fuß often only killes 2-3 men of a crew per shot, which means waiting for cool-down. Howitzer is cheaper and does even that job better for what it is. (same problem is the Katjusha/Panzerwerfer paradox).

It is funny to see, how often you try to defend broken mechanics. (edit: it doesn't depends on the fraction, fan-boy free talk. But it seems you don't get it)

Start mod-tools, replace leIG18 with Howitzer and start playing. Fun-fact, you are able to neutralize the popular HMG/AT-gun combo with ease.


Lol no chance, the Pak howi is a team weapon and all team weapons are safely wiped at range by rocket arty. Building a Pak howi when a stuka is on the field is just throwing away manpower.

Killing a stuka or Katy etc you can only really base dive with a medium tank, which usually means the loss of said vehicle even if you don't find their arty. Why you think this is easier to counter is beyond me.
26 Jun 2020, 17:10 PM
#132
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

So the stuka makes team weapons useless, allowing them to overperform, but the CalliOP is totally okay.

Comedy
26 Jun 2020, 17:36 PM
#133
avatar of Pervitin Addict

Posts: 51

So the stuka makes team weapons useless, allowing them to overperform, but the CalliOP is totally okay.

Comedy


yes
26 Jun 2020, 19:44 PM
#134
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289


Because it is used against 4 model infantry and 4 men support weapons?


Ost units are geared to fight 6 men squads and teams. So ost is op vs usf and brits?

The 4 men squads are supposed to be a weakness. While they have nades popcap free bunkers top notch mg etc.
27 Jun 2020, 11:57 AM
#135
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

So the stuka makes team weapons useless, allowing them to overperform, but the CalliOP is totally okay.

Comedy


Calli should be closer to vCoH design, let it use the maingun and have rockets secondary. (Maybe you should provide an argument to why you think it's OP, but that would be too much efforts)
27 Jun 2020, 18:57 PM
#136
avatar of Onimusha

Posts: 149

How can i deal with an advanced OKW hq with mgs and leigs, if you nerf pak howi? Do I lose the match while I'm waiting for the calliope or priest? USF has no rocket arty.
27 Jun 2020, 20:17 PM
#137
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

How can i deal with an advanced OKW hq with mgs and leigs, if you nerf pak howi? Do I lose the match while I'm waiting for the calliope or priest? USF has no rocket arty.

if it lost its auto fire and instead got a better barrage time it would still be more than feasible
27 Jun 2020, 20:36 PM
#138
avatar of Jiav

Posts: 32

How can i deal with an advanced OKW hq with mgs and leigs, if you nerf pak howi? Do I lose the match while I'm waiting for the calliope or priest? USF has no rocket arty.


sMokE
30 Jun 2020, 09:08 AM
#139
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392



Lol no chance, the Pak howi is a team weapon and all team weapons are safely wiped at range by rocket arty. Building a Pak howi when a stuka is on the field is just throwing away manpower.

Killing a stuka or Katy etc you can only really base dive with a medium tank, which usually means the loss of said vehicle even if you don't find their arty. Why you think this is easier to counter is beyond me.


Sry, wasn't online for some days.

The problem is, that Pack-Howitzer can 1-2 shot a PaK40 etc. without RNG, so it is as effective as StuKa-zu-Fuß doing that.

It would be ok if Howitzer lose auto-fire.

Also leIG18 has to be changed too.
30 Jun 2020, 09:21 AM
#140
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



Sry, wasn't online for some days.

The problem is, that Pack-Howitzer can 1-2 shot a PaK40 etc. without RNG, so it is as effective as StuKa-zu-Fuß doing that.

It would be ok if Howitzer lose auto-fire.

Also leIG18 has to be changed too.


King I actually agree with you in regards to auto fire

I don't feel there's anything wrong with a ATG being decrewed in 2 or 3 shots if it is barrage. But autoattack wipes with minimal micro involved are an issue yes.

Personally I would buff all mortar lethality but remove auto attack from the game. I believe Miragefly said relic were opposed to this however.
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