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Intel bulletins

23 Mar 2020, 16:10 PM
#1
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

Just this afternoon I figured that there are some intel bulletins which dont work as discribed or lost their use due to balance modification.

Is it possible for us to add/remove or modify existing bulletins?
23 Mar 2020, 16:34 PM
#2
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 148



and some people are able to use stack bulletins in 2019,thought they were removed long time ago
23 Mar 2020, 18:14 PM
#3
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3



and some people are able to use stack bulletins in 2019,thought they were removed long time ago


Are they able to time travel too?
23 Mar 2020, 18:43 PM
#4
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1388 | Subs: 1

It was discussed hundred and hundred times. I want to see some changes with bulletins too, because lots of them are useless, some doesn't work at all, but balance team and Relic didn't pay to much attention about bulletins system. I still have somewhere collected suggestions and ideas for bulletins system :unsure:

Bulletins can be modified, i remember at least one bulletin change since community got an opportunity to tweak the game. It was supression bulletin for Maxim.

But i can't say anything about adding new ones, since the last bulletins were added in 2016 iirc, before community start to make patches.
24 Mar 2020, 07:52 AM
#5
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

It was discussed hundred and hundred times. I want to see some changes with bulletins too, because lots of them are useless, some doesn't work at all, but balance team and Relic didn't pay to much attention about bulletins system. I still have somewhere collected suggestions and ideas for bulletins system :unsure:

Bulletins can be modified, i remember at least one bulletin change since community got an opportunity to tweak the game. It was supression bulletin for Maxim.

But i can't say anything about adding new ones, since the last bulletins were added in 2016 iirc, before community start to make patches.


Hmm, yea the maxim bulletin seems to add only 1% suppression isntead of the 5% it says. Does the mod team read these fora or is there another way to contact them? I'm thinking of making a excel-sheet with the bulletins present in the game and the changes that we can discuss on the fora later.
24 Mar 2020, 07:54 AM
#6
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321



and some people are able to use stack bulletins in 2019,thought they were removed long time ago


Does this actually stack !? because i've been discarding a few bulletins through the time.

3x extra accuracy for the obersoldaten will definatly be felt on the field, or 3x extra range for the tiger ace (30% !?).
24 Mar 2020, 08:41 AM
#7
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1388 | Subs: 1



Hmm, yea the maxim bulletin seems to add only 1% suppression isntead of the 5% it says. Does the mod team read these fora or is there another way to contact them? I'm thinking of making a excel-sheet with the bulletins present in the game and the changes that we can discuss on the fora later.


Yes, it is. AFAIK all of them are members of this forum, some of them even in the staff, like Sturmpanther or miragefla.

Edit:
This is the list of issues, which i see in the bulletins system
Hello, gentlemen!

I would like to talk about current situation with intel bulletins in the game. According to open sources, there is no plans for bulletins rework, but i still would like to get some ideas and discuss it with the community. Anyhow, i would like to add, at least UI part of this discussion to QoL thread, when some completed idea will appear. So, let's started!

Issue number one - visual language


As you know, enery bulletin has one or several symbols for fast recognise the affect. I believe it was ok in the beginning, but then a lot of disparities appeared. I will not list them all, just give some of them.

Example 1 - dispatch

Both bulletins reduce the time between dispatch. Earlier bulletins using right symbol, later bulletins using left symbol. Also, left symbol used for ability recharge bulleting, and reload bulletins.

Example 2 - reload

for some reason, you can face three different symbols for reload bulletins. Lightning symbol also used for reduced cooldown. Second one also used for increased rotation rate. Third one was mentioned in example number one.

It can be fixed, just need to make some symbols system to avoid overlapping between different effects.

The other issue - incorrect unit on the bulletin's icon. Some people can be confused by large number of M-42 bulletins, and 0 bulletins (according to image on icon) for ZiS-3. :snfPeter:


Also, there is no order by affected units, so you need to lurk bulletins for one unit in the chaos. It can be fixed with some manipulations with bulletins name. i've made it in russian numerical veterancy mod, and it looks really good!


Issue number two - bulletins with the same effect, but different %


Every bulletin should provide small, but meaningful effect. Currently, there are a lot of bulletins, especially for East factions, which provide the same effect, and the only difference - %. Some examples:
2 bulletins with 10% experience for HMG (1 special for Maxim, 1 for Maxim and MG 42)
2 bulletins with accuracy for Maxim (2% and 3%)
3 bulletins for Mortar accuracy (2%,3% and 5% for PM-41)
2 bulletins for SU-85 penetration (3% and 4%)
2 bulletins for ZiS-3 rotation (5% and combo bulletin 2% pen and 3% rotation)
4 bulletins for ZiS-3 penetration (2%,3%,4% and combo bulletin 2% pen and 3% rotation)

In my mind, every unit should have only one bulletin for every effect, but with solid % (for example 5%). Other option - bulletin with two effects, but smaller %(like 3% and 3%). So, 1%-2% bulletins should be reworked.

Issue number three - sevral units have one bulletins or don't have them at all


In the beginning, according to exist bulletins, every type of units has it own gentleman's set of bulletins. Like near by all vanilla infantry units, which were on the start, have their accuracy bulletin, and every HMG has number of bulletins for cooldown, reload and expirience. Here is some units, which require some bulletins:
Both 76-mm "Sherman" - 0 bulletins, not integrated in any global medium tanks bulletins
M1 mortar - 0 bulletins
KV-2 - 1 bulletin
KV-1 - 2 bulletins
SdKfz 221/223 - 0 bulletins
Ostheer Puma - 0 bulletins
M26 - 1 bulletin
T34 Calliope - 1 bulletin
Goliath - 1 bulletin
This list is not full.

Issue number four - late game bulletins


There is no doubt, that late game bulletins not used often because no guarantee, that you will use something from late game stuff, and their bonuses are on the same level with early game bulletins(2-5% mostly).
Something should be done with it. My idea based on unique options, like Ostwind supress bulletin provide, and some bulletins as gentleman's set, but with really meaningful influence, like increased expirience. For example dispatch bulletins for super heavies are really useless.

Issue number five - covered influence


Several bulletins affect not only listed in the description units. Like several StuG III G bulletins affect StuG III E and...Elefant. Bulletins should affect only one, two or max three units with some common thing (like mainline infantry, elite infantry, HMG or units with the same base in extremis, like grenadiers and assault grenadiers, or Guards and Assault guards).

IOW, every unit should have gentleman's set of 3-4 bulletins with good, but not extremely powerfull effects and 1-2 bulletins with unique bonuses, which increase unique advantage of unit, or open new options. (like mentioned above Ostwind bulletins).
Just an example - super heavies.
IS-2 and Tiger
2 gentleman's set bulletins - penetration and increased expirience.
IS-2 has bulletins with standart and half-standart effect - reload and speed/rotation.
Tiger has bulletins with standart and half-standart effect - increased armor and sight/turret rotation.
At the same time
Tiger II has only one bulletin from gentleman's set - increased expirience.
M26 has one bulletins from gentleman's set - increased penetration.

I would like to hear your opinion, i believe we can figure something interesting! :)

Hello, guys!

Several mounth ago i created thread about situation with bulletins. And one of highlighted issues was inconsistency of used symbol and even units on icons.



I was thinking to adjust these icons, but faced a reality, that to much work should be done. And here is my question - is it interesting to the community to adjust icons for bulletins and bring them to some common standart?

Or maybe you have some ideas about that, except major bulletins revamp of course, it is prerogative of Relic and balance team, not me :lol:

Example what i am talking about
Current Partisans bulletin icons


How they can be

24 Mar 2020, 10:53 AM
#8
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321


Edit:
This is the list of issues, which i see in the bulletins system


Not to be misinterpreted: with a 'gentleman's set' you mean just 3 intel bulletins that are roughly equal among all factions, right?

imo, each basis unit (non-doctrinal) should have 3 intel bulletins and all non-doctrinal units should only have 1 or 2.

It's not wasted time if we make a spreadsheet about this and show it to sturmpanther or any of the other mods?

imo the intel bulletins could really add extra flavor to the game, if only they would be kept up-to-date and they would function like they described.
24 Mar 2020, 12:40 PM
#9
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1388 | Subs: 1



Not to be misinterpreted: with a 'gentleman's set' you mean just 3 intel bulletins that are roughly equal among all factions, right?

Among units of the same class - yes

imo, each basis unit (non-doctrinal) should have 3 intel bulletins and all non-doctrinal units should only have 1 or 2.


Number of bulletins should be discussed closely. My idea:
2-3 bulletins for each unit with basic bonuses, which fits to this unit.
1-2 bulletins with unique bonus, like Ostwind has (added supression), which highlight the role of the unit.

It's not wasted time if we make a spreadsheet about this and show it to sturmpanther or any of the other mods?


It can be waste of time, so be ready for that.
24 Mar 2020, 12:53 PM
#10
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Among units of the same class - yes



Number of bulletins should be discussed closely. My idea:
2-3 bulletins for each unit with basic bonuses, which fits to this unit.
1-2 bulletins with unique bonus, like Ostwind has (added supression), which highlight the role of the unit.



It can be waste of time, so be ready for that.

I do agree that all unit should have 3 bulletins available to them

I would also like it if bulletin where not visible to enemy player.
24 Mar 2020, 13:23 PM
#11
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Mar 2020, 12:53 PMVipper

I would also like it if bulletin where not visible to enemy player.


Don't think we have much influence in the loading screen.
24 Mar 2020, 13:27 PM
#12
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Don't think we have much influence in the loading screen.

Well maybe they could just be have blank icon.
24 Mar 2020, 16:12 PM
#13
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

It can be waste of time, so be ready for that.


While we all appreciate your efforts, it's understandable why this kind of things keep getting pushed further back in the backlog.

At the end of the day, the bulletin system was a failed experiment which it's objective was to artificially increase the amount of random low value things which could be dropped in a lootbox system.
24 Mar 2020, 16:37 PM
#14
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1388 | Subs: 1

While we all appreciate your efforts, it's understandable why this kind of things keep getting pushed further back in the backlog.


It's not to offend somebody. if you do something by your own initiative, be ready that it won't be interested by anybody. Such is life :)

At the end of the day, the bulletin system was a failed experiment which it's objective was to artificially increase the amount of random low value things which could be dropped in a lootbox system.


From this point of view - yes. But if it is in the game already, why not to try a brainstorm to find some usage for it, since it is a part of the multiplayer?
24 Mar 2020, 17:10 PM
#15
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



It's not to offend somebody. if you do something by your own initiative, be ready that it won't be interested by anybody. Such is life :)



From this point of view - yes. But if it is in the game already, why not to try a brainstorm to find some usage for it, since it is a part of the multiplayer?


If i were Relic, the existence of any possibility of more work and any negative outcome outweights the gains from trying to rework the bulletin system.
24 Mar 2020, 17:15 PM
#16
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321



If i were Relic, the existence of any possibility of more work and any negative outcome outweights the gains from trying to rework the bulletin system.


Also if the community is willing to do practically all the work?

Also, my intentions weren't to create powerfull intel bulletins. Just some more consistancy throughout the 5 factions. Eastern front factions now have far more bulletins than the western front and I thought that could be a little bit more balanced out.
24 Mar 2020, 20:09 PM
#17
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



Also if the community is willing to do practically all the work?

Also, my intentions weren't to create powerfull intel bulletins. Just some more consistancy throughout the 5 factions. Eastern front factions now have far more bulletins than the western front and I thought that could be a little bit more balanced out.


Someone has to make the build even if all of it is already been done by someone else.
Someone has to QA it and make it pass through whatever requirements they need to.
Someone has to approve it.
Someone...
24 Mar 2020, 20:50 PM
#18
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

At the end of the day, the bulletin system was a failed experiment which it's objective was to artificially increase the amount of random low value things which could be dropped in a lootbox system.

But... bulletins existed waaaay before loot drops appeared and you unlocked them through achievements.

Also, they pretty much nailed "bulletins" in DoW3, one of few things DoW3 did right.... I mean functionality, not balance.
24 Mar 2020, 21:27 PM
#19
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Mar 2020, 20:50 PMKatitof

But... bulletins existed waaaay before loot drops appeared and you unlocked them through achievements.

Also, they pretty much nailed "bulletins" in DoW3, one of few things DoW3 did right.... I mean functionality, not balance.


Lootbox arrived later in conjunction with the cash system, but wasn't it hinted to be something which was gonna be done prior to release?

Wasn't one of the incentives for pre ordering some sort of "cash" which was later dropped ?
24 Mar 2020, 21:30 PM
#20
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 784

Just this afternoon I figured that there are some intel bulletins which dont work as discribed or lost their use due to balance modification.

Is it possible for us to add/remove or modify existing bulletins?


Bulletin effects can all be looked at and modified with basic modding tools (attribute editor).
It was how I found out the Rear Echelon accuracy/rof bulletin actually did the opposite of what it said it did and made the unit worse lol. (thankfully patched now)

IMO all the defunct dispatch time bulletins should at least be changed to build time reductions or something. There are a lot of these now.
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