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Super Heavy tank requirements in Winter balance preview

12 Mar 2020, 11:50 AM
#21
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 09:04 AMEsxile
So Perhsing is potentially the most expensive tank to get while also being the weakest at of all: You have to add at last an ambulance and Rack before getting it in real games.

USF and Soviet mid game momentum are also completely dependent on their light vehicle which is not true for other factions that can go without them. that 50 fuel for USF and 70 for Soviet if they want to get the upper hand for some time before their windows close up.

No wonder you barely seen Pershing in 2vs2 while Tigers are there every single game.


ppl wer going for tigers shows you how reliant axis are on the tiger to provide crucial AI and AT support. When playing USF, its not a important whether u get a Pershing out, since USF have strong AI in inf and strong AT in the jackson. If that wasn't the case you would be seeing more pershinsg being used. Even when the tiger was being picked almost every game, how was the axis win rates to USF/allied win rates in the tournament?, pls remind me. now imagine how bad its going to be without the tiger.
12 Mar 2020, 12:00 PM
#22
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 11:50 AMAlphrum


ppl wer going for tigers shows you how reliant axis are on the tiger to provide crucial AI and AT support. When playing USF, its not a important whether u get a Pershing out, since USF have strong AI in inf and strong AT in the jackson. If that wasn't the case you would be seeing more pershinsg being used. Even when the tiger was being picked almost every game, how was the axis win rates to USF/allied win rates in the tournament?, pls remind me. now imagine how bad its going to be without the tiger.


You have little proof about it. Going Tiger at the moment is just a no brainer move since it is so powerful. Today there is no real ways to determine if Ostheer is effectively underpowered like so many like to claim since you just need to pop a Tiger to turn any game in your favor.
Have you been outplayed early game: tiger is there
Have you staling till tiger and suffer for it: tiger is there
12 Mar 2020, 14:08 PM
#23
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 06:37 AMVipper


Imo the requirement of having a Schewerer Panzer headquarters with Panzer Authorization on map to have access to the doctrinal units is should be fixed. This is problem especially in 3vs3 and 4vs4 where the CP gain in longer and the shire volume of artillery can delete OKW easily.

If one is not willing to remove the restriction at least make the requirement of Panzer Authorization a one time requirement so that if one loses the Schewerer Panzer can replace it without having to unlock the Panzer Authorization again.



If only you were allowed to to place T4 inside your base where it was safe... I think the kids call it "risk/reward"? I don't play 3s and 4s but I'm fairly certain that most maps are all big enough so that even if you place T4 covering the 1st cap circle outside your base that it's safe enough that if you get pushed back that far then counterplay is fair enough.
12 Mar 2020, 14:18 PM
#24
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



If only you were allowed to to place T4 inside your base where it was safe... I think the kids call it "risk/reward"? I don't play 3s and 4s but I'm fairly certain that most maps are all big enough so that even if you place T4 covering the 1st cap circle outside your base that it's safe enough that if you get pushed back that far then counterplay is fair enough.


And what I suggest simply make punishment less severe.

In the end of the day if the risk is not worth the reward and currently in 4vs4 is not lets offer a discount to OKW that are built in base or even not allow them to be built outside the base.
12 Mar 2020, 15:25 PM
#25
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 14:18 PMVipper


And what I suggest simply make punishment less severe.

In the end of the day if the risk is not worth the reward and currently in 4vs4 is not lets offer a discount to OKW that are built in base or even not allow them to be built outside the base.


Or... instead of keeping snowflake treatment to OKW... if the risk is not worth the reward, then, I don't know - don't risk it and put it in safety of base sector?

If risk is too high for you, you don't go to forum to make 1000 posts about removal/reduction of risk, you don't do risky thing.

Different BOs and placements of defensive structures work differently depending of game mode.
Nothing wrong with that, just don't put trucks forward in 4v4 if you don't want to lose access to units that require tech, wether they are doctrinal or not.

Also, specifically for what you ask, you retain KT call-in.
12 Mar 2020, 15:33 PM
#26
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 14:18 PMVipper


And what I suggest simply make punishment less severe.

In the end of the day if the risk is not worth the reward and currently in 4vs4 is not lets offer a discount to OKW that are built in base or even not allow them to be built outside the base.


How does it make sense to encourage OKW to crutch on call-in doctrinal units in team games if their T4 is destroyed? You get all the reward of Flak cannon covering important ground and then can just call in Command Panther/Command Tiger/JT if it gets destroyed. Even if you force a token 60 fuel to rebuild base truck without the Panzer Auth. then the difference in 60 fuel between reteching PA + Stock unit and calling in a doctrinal unit favors the call-in almost every single time.
12 Mar 2020, 16:10 PM
#27
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



How does it make sense to encourage OKW to crutch on call-in doctrinal units in team games if their T4 is destroyed? You get all the reward of Flak cannon covering important ground and then can just call in Command Panther/Command Tiger/JT if it gets destroyed. Even if you force a token 60 fuel to rebuild base truck without the Panzer Auth. then the difference in 60 fuel between reteching PA + Stock unit and calling in a doctrinal unit favors the call-in almost every single time.

They can already crutch in KT.
12 Mar 2020, 16:37 PM
#28
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I see no reason to touch the ISU152 atm.

Double standards between AVRE and Sturmtiger.

Croc change maybe.

Tiger ace change maybe.

Flak HQ should be alive in order for call ins to be available. Panzer authorisation should be a one time thing (as battle phases).

Alternative nerf to offset this change:
-Remove LoS of building requiring a unit for it to be effective (or picking the niche commander).
-Panzer authorisation bundles up the upgrade for the Flak cannon. If you have to rebuilt Flak HQ, you would have access to all units but the cannon must be re-bought for a small price (close to engineer/medic cost unlock).
12 Mar 2020, 17:24 PM
#29
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

..
Double standards between AVRE and Sturmtiger.
...

I personally consider AVRE a better vehicle even with the latest changes to the ST.
In addition ST is facing 60 range TDs that can penetrate reliably.

Any way, I do not consider 1 CP difference in between AVRE and ST as "double standards" from my part, since the difference already exist in the preview. I would really object for these 2 vehicles to have the same CP thou.
12 Mar 2020, 18:25 PM
#30
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 17:24 PMVipper

I personally consider AVRE a better vehicle even with the latest changes to the ST.
In addition ST is facing 60 range TDs that can penetrate reliably.

Any way, I do not consider 1 CP difference in between AVRE and ST as "double standards" from my part, since the difference already exist in the preview. I would really object for these 2 vehicles to have the same CP thou.


Double standards is asking for 1 to arrive sooner and the other later. You could have said there's a discrepancy and that both of them should either arrive at 9CP or 10CP as you say now.

12 Mar 2020, 18:52 PM
#31
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Double standards is asking for 1 to arrive sooner and the other later. You could have said there's a discrepancy and that both of them should either arrive at 9CP or 10CP as you say now.


?
ST move from 8 to 9
Avre move from 9 to 10

Actually I suggested both to be delayed by 1 CP.
12 Mar 2020, 20:23 PM
#32
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 18:52 PMVipper

?
ST move from 8 to 9
Avre move from 9 to 10

Actually I suggested both to be delayed by 1 CP.


I somehow read it as ST from 10 to 9 and Avre from 9 to 10
12 Mar 2020, 21:27 PM
#33
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

Tbh I think that's how everyone read it.
12 Mar 2020, 22:25 PM
#34
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



I somehow read it as ST from 10 to 9 and Avre from 9 to 10

Never mind we all make mistakes.
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