Thoughts on the WINTER PATCH changes
30 Jan 2020, 05:42 AM
#1
Posts: 187
I'm not going to cover all the changes in the notes, but just those I think are significant ones.
Here is the full notes.
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/287235#Comment_287235
30 Jan 2020, 07:58 AM
#2
Posts: 959
Voted "good changes" (or similar) to everything except UKF-IS changes and ST changes.
Buffing IS' moving accuracy isn't going to fix a lot, and if anything, is only going to add to their ability to wipe retreating units. The core issue for the unit is the focus on the "cover bonus" mechanic, which inherently is going to make them either too weak out of cover and balanced in cover, or balanced out of cover and op in cover. This change will (IMO) likely transition the IS' to the later state, which isn't great. All around, this unit just needs a re-work.
For the ST, the main issue is the shell not hitting where its supposed to, due to its arc. A few people have stated that the 'solution' is to intentionally over-shoot the target, but this means its (relatively short) range is reduced even more. I'd either like to see the current ST buffed via range (+5 or 10, at most), or re-worked to have two projectiles: its current one (no changes), and a new "world-piercing" shell that costs muni to fire (70 muni?).
Buffing IS' moving accuracy isn't going to fix a lot, and if anything, is only going to add to their ability to wipe retreating units. The core issue for the unit is the focus on the "cover bonus" mechanic, which inherently is going to make them either too weak out of cover and balanced in cover, or balanced out of cover and op in cover. This change will (IMO) likely transition the IS' to the later state, which isn't great. All around, this unit just needs a re-work.
For the ST, the main issue is the shell not hitting where its supposed to, due to its arc. A few people have stated that the 'solution' is to intentionally over-shoot the target, but this means its (relatively short) range is reduced even more. I'd either like to see the current ST buffed via range (+5 or 10, at most), or re-worked to have two projectiles: its current one (no changes), and a new "world-piercing" shell that costs muni to fire (70 muni?).
Opinions reflect all team modes (not 1v1)
I often edit my posts several times after posting
I often edit my posts several times after posting
30 Jan 2020, 09:46 AM
#3
Posts: 309
I don't like the British IS changes (I think it's too much), but otherwise I think the changes are good. I'm not very good at the game though (2k hours played with not much multiplayer) so take what I say as what you will
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30 Jan 2020, 09:50 AM
#4
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Heavy tanks to 11CP is a good direction but not enough. Higher cost needed or lower performance.
Section buffs need to be straight up removed and the Cromwell needs to be buffed.
HQ medics are good.
The reload nerf is good.
The Sturmtiger needs more vet bonuses.
The 251 HT is going in a terrible direction. I’d just reduce the current beam range and I’d fix it by clearing any suppression units in its beam have. Not very realistic but we all know this would be a much needed fix.
Section buffs need to be straight up removed and the Cromwell needs to be buffed.
HQ medics are good.
The reload nerf is good.
The Sturmtiger needs more vet bonuses.
The 251 HT is going in a terrible direction. I’d just reduce the current beam range and I’d fix it by clearing any suppression units in its beam have. Not very realistic but we all know this would be a much needed fix.
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30 Jan 2020, 10:26 AM
#5
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
I will trade section buff for a valentine replacing the bofor in platoon cp as an AI oriented light tank. Open up more LV play outside of AEC.
30 Jan 2020, 10:28 AM
#6
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
But Anyway, leave alone moving acc, RA buff and smoke pyro is good change.
30 Jan 2020, 15:15 PM
#7
Posts: 5279
Most of the changes I liked. Later heavies is good imo, the tuning of 7man is good, uhu is a good direction and I'm happy to see some thought being out into the sturmtiger
The Tommie changes are shit though and imo shows they don't know what they are supposed to be. The problem with them isn't their mobility it's their shit performance even when stationary.
The smoke barrage is nice I like that and I'm glad to see ass Tommies getting their own vet instead of being an upgrade but again, the Tommie moving accuracy change is as out of touch as the 5fu nerf the Jackson got. It's a paper change that effectively will do nothing at all but be something to point to and say "look we tried". The other changes are good tho imo. Or interesting at least.
The Tommie changes are shit though and imo shows they don't know what they are supposed to be. The problem with them isn't their mobility it's their shit performance even when stationary.
The smoke barrage is nice I like that and I'm glad to see ass Tommies getting their own vet instead of being an upgrade but again, the Tommie moving accuracy change is as out of touch as the 5fu nerf the Jackson got. It's a paper change that effectively will do nothing at all but be something to point to and say "look we tried". The other changes are good tho imo. Or interesting at least.
#stalinwept
31 Jan 2020, 12:35 PM
#8
Posts: 187
Heavy tanks to 11CP is a good direction but not enough. Higher cost needed or lower performance.
That's how they were before the last patch, expensive and performed badly. Then, everyone complained so they got buffed.
31 Jan 2020, 12:46 PM
#9
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
That's how they were before the last patch, expensive and performed badly. Then, everyone complained so they got buffed.
Not really.
The problem was only in large modes, they come too late and where decimated by vetted TDs. And that has partially to do with performance of TDs.
31 Jan 2020, 14:40 PM
#10
Posts: 143
I don´t really understand why i should build a unit even with 70 vision range and place it completely out of cover. I´d never place an ATg in the front so
i don´t know if its ok with the IR next to it. i don´t think its worth paying fuel for it tho.
on the other hand i think i should check it out some more.
i don´t know if its ok with the IR next to it. i don´t think its worth paying fuel for it tho.
on the other hand i think i should check it out some more.
31 Jan 2020, 14:48 PM
#11
Posts: 17885 | Subs: 8
I don´t really understand why i should build a unit even with 70 vision range and place it completely out of cover. I´d never place an ATg in the front so
i don´t know if its ok with the IR next to it. i don´t think its worth paying fuel for it tho.
on the other hand i think i should check it out some more.
Oh, you know, for example if there is, lets say, allied 60 range TD and you want to abuse JP4 against it as JP4 pretty much stomps allied TDs, especially if vetted and if it can always see everything at max range, its not hard to vet it up.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
1 Feb 2020, 06:08 AM
#12
Posts: 26
glad IR halftrack is getting changed.
mfw your tank gets in some bs 180 spin by hitting a literal bush, exposing your rear armor to vet 3 pgrens with anti-armor heat seeking, gravity defying, hand held missile launchers.
3 Feb 2020, 13:15 PM
#13
Posts: 187
glad IR halftrack is getting changed.
yea at last, but i dont think the range is sufficient in big maps, however, in smaller maps like in 1v1 & 2v2, it could provide too much range and thus become OP when used with snipers or Jagtiger.
3 Feb 2020, 15:25 PM
#14
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
yea at last, but i dont think the range is sufficient in big maps, however, in smaller maps like in 1v1 & 2v2, it could provide too much range and thus become OP when used with snipers or Jagtiger.
In 1v1 it is barely see play and the biggest benefactor of the vision has mostly been indirect fire and revealing cloaked units (atm been removed).
Unless JT receives some further changes i don't think it will rise in popularity over Ele (and the most common pick is with spotting scope and recon plane commander).
The current vision range is low because it has a quite wide arc instead. Ideally it would be a sweeping beam of normal extended vision.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
3 Feb 2020, 16:52 PM
#15
Posts: 311
Sorry, but worst patch in years.
Nothing in being fixed with the 60 range TD, and LV abusing (specially T70).
Nothing in being fixed with the 60 range TD, and LV abusing (specially T70).
3 Feb 2020, 17:43 PM
#16
Posts: 318
Sorry, but worst patch in years.
Nothing in being fixed with the 60 range TD, and LV abusing (specially T70).
Well, maybe not the worst patch. But surely they missed a lot of possibilities.
E.g. life quality with autoreload from HMGs if they are out of cover or a force reload button and stuff...
There are so many good things that mods have shown us. And nothing is implemented.
Balance is also questionable.
4 Feb 2020, 13:16 PM
#17
Posts: 187
Well, maybe not the worst patch. But surely they missed a lot of possibilities.
E.g. life quality with autoreload from HMGs if they are out of cover or a force reload button and stuff...
There are so many good things that mods have shown us. And nothing is implemented.
Balance is also questionable.
I think that HMG reload issue is well know among the mod community and if they know a way to fix it, they would have provided a solution long time ago. So, easy said but hard done.
Give some credit to the mod team given relic abandoned this game long time ago.
4 Feb 2020, 15:51 PM
#18
Posts: 318
I think that HMG reload issue is well know among the mod community and if they know a way to fix it, they would have provided a solution long time ago. So, easy said but hard done.
Give some credit to the mod team given relic abandoned this game long time ago.
Well, a lot of mods have forece reload as a button. I do not see a reason why it is not possible to implement this in a official patch. HMG or clip weapons like Ostwind is not that hard. Even some modders (like miragefla iirc) also had stuff in their own mods before they started working for the "patch team".
I give credit as soon as the patch is reasonable and enjoyable and provides serious stuff and not just the intend.
As I said there is so much stuff that can be done.
For example the visual and ui fixes, or better portraits. In general tweaked commanders/reworked
Possibility to put away the minesweeper for all factions. Need more stuff?
Ostheer
+ S-mines are no longer built as a mine field with warning signs and built as one small group
+ Panzerwerfer will now turn to face a target when using its MG
+ Panzerwerfer MG42 damage also increased to match LMG42
+"Field Medical Kit" changed to "Model 24 Grenade". Allows the Grenadier squad to throw a single Model 24 allowing the squad to have some sort of self-defense against units that close in.
+ SdKfz 251 can always lay down Riegelmine
OKW
+ Kübelwagen vet 1 bonus changed to Crew Repair (Detection ability no longer requires vet) and vet 3 bonus changed
+ SdKfz221 buildable and upgradeable to 223 to secure sectors
+ MG34 HMG Team
- Adjusted the MG-34 veterancy to match other units in the OKW's rework of Veterancy 4 and 5.
-Veterancy 4 now provides +6 sight.
-Veterancy 5 grants 'Sustained Fire'. Drastically improves durst length by 50%, burst rate of fire by 25%, and redced reload time by 75%. 15 munitions and 15 second duration.
Soviets
+ Partisan squads can build PMD-6 anti-personnel mines
+ Partisan squads now gain a fifth member at vet 2
+ TM-35 anti-tank mine is now only triggered by vehicles.
+ POMZ Flare Trip Mine can now be constructed normally by Combat Engineers
+ Combat Engineers vet 1 ability changed to faster construction rate
+ T70 nerf so that AOE is less deadly to bunched up squads.
+ M-42 Anti-Tank Gun
Significant improvements through abilities to make it more useable and unique and closer to a Raketenwerfer than the larger anti-tank guns.
-Can retreat.
-Gun health standardized with other basic team weapons.
+ KV-2
Improved the weapon on the KV-2 to make the tank more viable against armour by adding deflection damage. No longer losess sight when in siege mode as it is an unnecessary penalty when the tank loses all movement and gains received accuracy penalties. Reduced the time the KV-2 requires to set-up and redeploy due to its slow nature.
-"Capture Point" replaced with "Tracking".
-Sight penalty removed from siege mode.
-Reload of direct fire from 10-12 seconds to 9.
-Deals 40% deflection damage for both weapons.
-Set-up time from 10 to 8. Pack up from 5 to 4.
-Rear armour from 180 to 120.
Brits
+ Valentine main gun damage increased
Reduced its population and veterancy requirements as this is a support tank with only moderate combat effectiveness which made it difficult to gain veterancy. Damage has been increased to improve combat performance, but its ability to crush has been removed while retaining its fast rotation.
+ Add a projectile to AEC Treadbreaker
+ PIAT Launcher projectile speed and acceleration increased
Valentine Tank
Reduced its population and veterancy requirements as this is a support tank with only moderate combat effectiveness which made it difficult to gain veterancy. Increase Damage to improve combat performance, but its ability to crush been removed while retaining its fast rotation.
US
+ M10 Flanking Speed ability no longer requires vet 2
Just to mention a few things that could be done.
4 Feb 2020, 18:27 PM
#19
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Because you have to make a clear distinction between QOL changes (manual reload) and balance changes.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
4 Feb 2020, 22:14 PM
#20
Posts: 318
So we do not receive QOL changes because there is not a clear disctinction between both things. Makes sense 
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