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Winter balance (1/2020) feedback - UKF

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13 Feb 2020, 20:02 PM
#264
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 195

Not sure if Officer has shared vet. I think someone said it was technically an officer unit so it does but I haven't tested it myself.

If it does get shared vet in its current iteration, it shouldn't.

Vet not upgrades is what will carry the Air Landing Officer through so it should fight for its Vet 2-3 that can destroy other CQC units.

ALso it'll make it more punishing to lose the squad.

Edit: if you want to see some UKF winter balance patch games in action the Winter Preview Amateur tournament has officially started and people seems to lean towards trying UKF. https://discord.gg/e8cEHkd
21 Feb 2020, 22:45 PM
#265
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8524 | Subs: 1

British

Churchill Crocodile
CP requirement from 9 to 12

Croc seems to be less powerful than other Super heavies maybe reduce CP to 11 or give it discount?


Airlanding Officer




1) Reinforcement cost reduction is good change for CQC maybe it could even lower
2) Sten mid DPS 137% is a step in the wrong direction the brute force of the unit should be reduced not increased. At the very least reduce the close DPS


Medics


Auto Search Healing toggle now roots the squad to the target position.
The chance seem to have made made medic more difficult to use since they will stop healing if the unit moves.

I would suggest they get work similar to Major placing a banner and moving around it to heal

Commando and HQ Glider

Can now be repaired.

HQ Glider


Suggestion:
Allow glider to be dropped in Base sector

Change crew of team weapons to Commandos

Replace the stat of ATG with a copy of USF ATG (although the ATG used had the MK III carriage and the model can not probably be modified)

Maybe change the commando squad with a 4 men squad with rifles bren and not camo as a long range elite infatry to reduce overlap with Commando regiment.

OR simply move the glider to Commando regiment replacing either smoke raid operation or assault that might prove problematic with the new moving accuracy of tommies. One could even add the pack howitzer in HQ glider if it was moved to commandos which was designed for air transportation (not a good idea if it stays in Vanguard).


British M5

CP requirement from 2 to 3
Nice to see that what I suggested in preview is applied

Assault Section
Veterancy 3 weapon accuracy from +40% to +30%.

Tank Hunter Tommies


Change the vet bonuses of the unit.

British Platoon and Company Command

Now grants half a CP upon completion.
22 Feb 2020, 01:59 AM
#266
avatar of blancat

Posts: 788

HQ glider : Can now train MGs and ATGs that will spawn at the glider.

The base can produce all of these units anyway, so what's the point of this?

MG and ATG is not needed

HQ glider need Motar team and commando

22 Feb 2020, 04:00 AM
#267
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 615

Ok, officer reinforce cost reduce is good and 30 is reasonable for that power lv. As i understand, reduce in vet 3 bonus but at the same time increase mid dps is an attempt to improve performance at vet 0 and tone down vet 3. Still, i dont know how this change will turn out but i'm starting to feel a bit like viper's concern.

About UI, currently, officer's symbol have a parachute and 3 square, indicate that he have rank of captain. As the unit is now stock, i suggest give him a new symbol of just 2 square, get rid of the parachute and show that he now a lieutenant - platoon officer.

Repairable gilder is a straight forward step, very nice. But built-able MG/AT is a downgrade. At least, crews should be commando models with some bonus like faster setup/teardown time, more accuracy, rate of fire,etc. And a mortar should definitely be in there. Cp requirement of HQ glider can be down to 2, if it only produce team weapons. Or, like Viper said, a 4 man commando squad with rifle and elite bren tag.

AT section now can scale in to late game, very nice.
22 Feb 2020, 10:28 AM
#268
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 615

At section PIAT upgrade currently available right out of the gate, shouldn't it be put behind company CP ?
22 Feb 2020, 13:44 PM
#269
avatar of srider

Posts: 31

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Feb 2020, 01:59 AMblancat
HQ glider : Can now train MGs and ATGs that will spawn at the glider.

The base can produce all of these units anyway, so what's the point of this?

MG and ATG is not needed

HQ glider need Motar team and commando




First of all, you can still build commando from the glider despite the notes reading otherwise.

In terms of being able to build AT gun and MG from the glider, I would go as far as to say that this is one of the most interesting additions to the faction in a long time.

The reason for why that is the case is because UKF is most effective when they can take up a good position early game, and hold such position until mid game where you will be able to field more units. However, against early light vehicle builds, the time it takes for the AT gun to move up from base to the position leaves a big hole in the line for exploit. Being able to build and spawn the AT gun from an advanced position potentially fills the hole and opens up the possibility for much more aggressive play style.
22 Feb 2020, 14:32 PM
#270
avatar of Stark

Posts: 589 | Subs: 1

Ok, officer reinforce cost reduce is good and 30 is reasonable for that power lv. As i understand, reduce in vet 3 bonus but at the same time increase mid dps is an attempt to improve performance at vet 0 and tone down vet 3. Still, i dont know how this change will turn out but i'm starting to feel a bit like viper's concern.

About UI, currently, officer's symbol have a parachute and 3 square, indicate that he have rank of captain. As the unit is now stock, i suggest give him a new symbol of just 2 square, get rid of the parachute and show that he now a lieutenant - platoon officer.

Repairable gilder is a straight forward step, very nice. But built-able MG/AT is a downgrade. At least, crews should be commando models with some bonus like faster setup/teardown time, more accuracy, rate of fire,etc. And a mortar should definitely be in there. Cp requirement of HQ glider can be down to 2, if it only produce team weapons. Or, like Viper said, a 4 man commando squad with rifle and elite bren tag.

Like the idea of a officer being better at mid range but then you cannot keep him so strong at closest distance. Before it was kinda okish with high reinforcing cost but not it cannot be such a wipe mashine. Need another nerf to compensate.

Glider with buidable units in tech structure without even visiual or performence change. Well, sorry but its lame. You have almost endless list of options:
1. Motar team - must add unit
2. Mobile inf AT squad
3. Better version of team weapons.
4. Add recon Infantry Section with upgradable scope rifle (copy paste Jeagers) - keeps Vangurard theme
5. PakHowi
5. Even jeep/WC
Crewed visually by commando style units.

As Viper said, it should be able to drop in base sector (after release glider was giving a resources buff so that made sense back then but not anymore.
22 Feb 2020, 14:49 PM
#271
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1352 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Feb 2020, 22:45 PMVipper
British

HQ Glider


Suggestion:
Allow glider to be dropped in Base sector

Change crew of team weapons to Commandos

Replace the stat of ATG with a copy of USF ATG (although the ATG used had the MK III carriage and the model can not probably be modified)

Maybe change the commando squad with a 4 men squad with rifles bren and not camo as a long range elite infatry to reduce overlap with Commando regiment.

OR simply move the glider to Commando regiment replacing either smoke raid operation or assault that might prove problematic with the new moving accuracy of tommies.


I think italicized suggestion would be a good idea to prevent Vanguard from becoming a no-brain doctrine pick like some other factions have. It already has UKF's heavy, a very strong off-map and their strongest infantry that was previously only balanced by cost. Removing camo and turning the glider squad into some long range specialist squad would keep Commando Doctrine's niche, as long as said squad isn't too spammable.
22 Feb 2020, 14:50 PM
#272
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 232

I like the suggestions about making the hq glider more interesting but to be real here, I think it would be easier to make it come with commandos and when you upgrade it to a hq, then you can repair.

In this case both vanguard and commando regiment would benefit.
22 Feb 2020, 15:58 PM
#273
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8524 | Subs: 1

Is avre going to stay CP 9 Hammer/Anvil?
22 Feb 2020, 16:04 PM
#274
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2118 | Subs: 1

I find the UKF officer to be really awkward to use. It needs a lot of babysitting until it reaches vet. I also haven't seen it used effectively in the balance preview streams I watched.

Also glider without Commandos is questionable considering it can't be repaired and is so fragile.
22 Feb 2020, 16:14 PM
#275
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8524 | Subs: 1

I find the UKF officer to be really awkward to use. It needs a lot of babysitting until it reaches vet. I also haven't seen it used effectively in the balance preview streams I watched.

Also glider without Commandos is questionable considering it can't be repaired and is so fragile.

HQ Glider can be built commandos, HMG, ATG and can be repaired.
22 Feb 2020, 16:26 PM
#276
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2118 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Feb 2020, 16:14 PMVipper

HQ Glider can be built commandos and can be repaired.


I didn't know it can be repaired, fair enough. It's still very fragile, takes up lots of room and annoying to use because of pathfinding and the damage on landing. It just feels awkward to me.
22 Feb 2020, 16:28 PM
#277
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8524 | Subs: 1



I didn't know it can be repaired, fair enough. It's still very fragile, takes up lots of room and annoying to use because of pathfinding and the damage on landing. It just feels awkward to me.

Maybe I was not clear it can be repaired in the winter mode...

Patch notes:

Commando and HQ Glider

Can now be repaired.
22 Feb 2020, 16:38 PM
#278
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2118 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Feb 2020, 16:28 PMVipper

Maybe I was not clear it can be repaired in the winter mode...

Patch notes:

Commando and HQ Glider

Can now be repaired.


Yes I missed that.

My point still stands.

I have doubts about the UKF officer is turning out to be the unit it needs to be.

I would prefer it if it was more like a Pgren squad with more spread out damage profile + smoke grenade instead of gammon bomb + stronger performance in early game but less late game scaling.

That way it would be way easier to use it and it would require less babysitting. Also the smoke grenade would help a lot.

Also not a fan of the base medics. I still don't understand the point of them.
22 Feb 2020, 17:11 PM
#279
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8524 | Subs: 1



Yes I missed that.

My point still stands.

I have doubts about the UKF officer is turning out to be the unit it needs to be.

I would prefer it if it was more like a Pgren squad with more spread out damage profile + smoke grenade instead of gammon bomb + stronger performance in early game but less late game scaling.

That way it would be way easier to use it and it would require less babysitting. Also the smoke grenade would help a lot.

Also not a fan of the base medics. I still don't understand the point of them.

Well I have pointed the same things about the officer and Medic.

Although my suggestion for the officer is simpler. 5 men unit similar to assault section available from T0 and with an incendiary gammon bomb (copy of VG's grenade )available from start.

That should cover the basic UKF needs of early game. Defense vs SP/assault grenadier and anti-garrison utility.
22 Feb 2020, 17:36 PM
#280
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1535 | Subs: 1

+1 to the idea of HQ glider having some other buildable unit than commandos. It's a very no brain pick right now. Some kind of Pathfinder or Commando with Elite Piats and AT mines would be something different. Also, could we please add fixing Hold the Line to the scope. With the Tank Hunter changes Special Weapons is finally looking viable and that would help a lot
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