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COH2 winter balance mod - discussion

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30 Jan 2020, 14:53 PM
#481
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


SO we are going to ignore the fact penals have 4 svt's +70% acc from vet. Did you ever even try to fight axis mainlines with vetted ptrs penals???? If you did you would not have this opinion.

Yes, we do, because 4 rifles do output a conscript level DPS and each model lost is 25% of DPS lost, LMG grens roflstomp them, while the squad itself has THE lowest received accuracy in game at vet3, meaning they will go down fast to any kind of weapon that can focus on a model.

Game isn't about feels, but about stats.
30 Jan 2020, 15:07 PM
#482
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 14:53 PMKatitof

Yes, we do, because 4 rifles do output a conscript level DPS and each model lost is 25% of DPS lost, LMG grens roflstomp them, while the squad itself has THE lowest received accuracy in game at vet3, meaning they will go down fast to any kind of weapon that can focus on a model.

I'm sorry, What?????

penal vet0 SVT:
0-6: 5.2 dps
35: 1.808 dps

Con vet3 Mosins:
0: 5.2 (ignoring the over 100% acc)
35: 1.8

penal vet3 SVT:
0-6: 9.3 dps(again ignoring over 100% acc)
35: 3.4 dps

Gren vet3 Kars:
0: 8.3 dps (again ignoring over 100% acc)
35: 3.35 dps

Gren vet3 LMG:
0: 8.5 dps
6: 9.3 dps

i really don't know what you are talking about dude.

And if you really can't believe me go try using them your self.
30 Jan 2020, 15:18 PM
#483
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

And now add these up to full squad DPS and include received accuracy differences.

Don't forget PTRS penals have 4 SVTs, not 6.

i really don't know what you are talking about dude.

I can tell. I was quite clear.
30 Jan 2020, 16:11 PM
#484
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 15:18 PMKatitof
And now add these up to full squad DPS and include received accuracy differences.

Don't forget PTRS penals have 4 SVTs, not 6.

Really. OK,

Guards,

Mosins:
0-4: 4.7 dps
35: 1.4 dps

+ guards have 2 ptrs's

Grens,

Kar98k's:
0: 5.7 dps
4: 5.2 dps
35: 2.26 dps

Go in game and find out who exactly wins in a fight between grens and guards without lmg upgrades. You will be surprised.
30 Jan 2020, 16:38 PM
#485
avatar of Boz_Hower

Posts: 28


Really. OK,

Guards,

Mosins:
0-4: 4.7 dps
35: 1.4 dps

+ guards have 2 ptrs's

Grens,

Kar98k's:
0: 5.7 dps
4: 5.2 dps
35: 2.26 dps

Go in game and find out who exactly wins in a fight between grens and guards without lmg upgrades. You will be surprised.

Where the hell did Guard coming from? You were taking about Penal for an hour ago
30 Jan 2020, 16:50 PM
#486
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3


Oh yeah, Try fighting vet3 ptrs penals vs vet5 stg volks from mid-long, see who wins. For some reason people thing ptrs penals are terrible at fighting infantry. But my experience says they are not. vet3 ptrs penals can still beat vet 3 lmg grens from close.


Dude are you high?

PTRS Penals lose half their DPS when they drop two models and we’re talking about a squad that’s notoriously bad at scaling into the lategame without PTRS.


jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 14:53 PMKatitof

Yes, we do, because 4 rifles do output a conscript level DPS and each model lost is 25% of DPS lost, LMG grens roflstomp them, while the squad itself has THE lowest received accuracy in game at vet3, meaning they will go down fast to any kind of weapon that can focus on a model.

Game isn't about feels, but about stats.


Nah dude, he spawned them next to eachother and the Penals won, that’s exactly what happens in a live game.
30 Jan 2020, 17:00 PM
#487
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



Dude are you high?

PTRS Penals lose half their DPS when they drop two models and we’re talking about a squad that’s notoriously bad at scaling into the lategame without PTRS.

I'm not high.
ptrs penals from my experience at vet3 can still beat vet5 stg volks from mid-long, and can beat
vet3 lmg Grens from close range.
Remember I play sovs the most, so you can't say i'm axis fanboying here. Yes they are terrible at dealing with lmg grens at long ranges and falls/lmg ober and g43 grens/pg's but are dedicated ai unit's. The fact that ptrs penals can hold heir own(under certain conditions) vs upgraded volks and grens in my books is good enough for me.
30 Jan 2020, 17:00 PM
#488
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Penal vet bonuses are anything but bad.
30 Jan 2020, 17:02 PM
#489
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563


Nah dude, he spawned them next to eachother and the Penals won, that’s exactly what happens in a live game.


No dude, this is my experience from actually playing the game.
30 Jan 2020, 17:04 PM
#490
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563


Where the hell did Guard coming from? You were taking about Penal for an hour ago

Well you see, guards have worse stats then ptrs penals at all ranges but still tend to win close up.
Not that you'd ever see this in game cus face it guard dp's are a no brainer upgrade at least for me.
30 Jan 2020, 17:08 PM
#491
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 17:00 PMVipper
Penal vet bonuses are anything but bad.
no no no
thye are bad

don't u know 70% acc 25% ra and 25% weapon cd is bad ? (yes i did an average of the last man ability)

i mean obv 40%acc 20% weapon cd and 23% ra is better right ? (pfusi)

or even better 30% acc 20% weapon cd and 24% ra (volks)

such a bad vet , the worse scaling inf in the game
30 Jan 2020, 17:09 PM
#492
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260


Well you see, guards have worse stats then ptrs penals at all ranges but still tend to win close up.
Not that you'd ever see this in game cus face it guard dp's are a no brainer upgrade at least for me.


You must share where you found these infinite munitions.
30 Jan 2020, 17:10 PM
#493
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



No dude, this is my experience from actually playing the game.


Your experience from playing is that you can push Axis lines with PTRS Penals?

You know it's quite annoying getting in threads only to see you argue the most BIZZARE things which takes up entire pages of threads.
30 Jan 2020, 17:19 PM
#494
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



Your experience from playing is that you can push Axis lines with PTRS Penals?

You know it's quite annoying getting in threads only to see you argue the most BIZZARE things which takes up entire pages of threads.

OMG, dude dude listen....
Does the fact that vetted ptrs penal beating vetted axis mainlines mean they are incompetent vs infantry???? answere this???
Use case is completely different subject. Would you wan't to defend a line vs allied attack with ass grens??? Probably not, does that mean they are terrible that they suck??? well no. They are not incompetent vs infantry either.

Sure they are not as useful/preferable in pushing axis lines as regular penals are. But in normal situations your push will be supported by other infantry + vehicles + recon + arty + abilities, so what's the point of asking this.

30 Jan 2020, 17:22 PM
#495
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 17:09 PMLago


You must share where you found these infinite munitions.

Well i generally have make 1 to 4(2 units is preferable at all times) guards a game and since sovs swim in munitions that's never an issue.
30 Jan 2020, 17:24 PM
#496
avatar of Boz_Hower

Posts: 28


OMG, dude dude listen....
Does the fact that vetted ptrs penal beating vetted axis mainlines mean they are incompetent vs infantry???? answere this???
Use case is completely different subject. Would you wan't to defend a line vs allied attack with ass grens??? Probably not, does that mean they are terrible that they suck??? well no. They are not incompetent vs infantry either.

Sure they are not as useful/preferable in pushing axis lines as regular penals are. But in normal situations your push will be supported by other infantry + vehicles + recon + arty + abilities, so what's the point of asking this.


Since when PTRS Penal can beat STG44 Volks? Lads am I play couple patch behide ya?

Do you know: Ostheer have different squad that is not Assualt Gren and they can do better job at defending because they have LMG or STG44?

You also have other infantry + vehicles + recon + arty + abilities to defense yourself did you also know that
30 Jan 2020, 17:33 PM
#497
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3


OMG, dude dude listen....
Does the fact that vetted ptrs penal beating vetted axis mainlines mean they are incompetent vs infantry???? answere this??? They don't. Grens never fight 1v1 unless you're a noob and you don't support them. Volks win.
Use case is completely different subject. Would you wan't to defend a line vs allied attack with ass grens??? Probably not, does that mean they are terrible that they suck??? well no. They are not incompetent vs infantry either. Assgrens can defend if you want. 6 men with smgs behind sandbags and can rush to flank. Bad example. PTRS Penals are shite vs infantry and have limited range vs tanks so they're not very useful.

Sure they are not as useful/preferable in pushing axis lines as regular penals are. But in normal situations your push will be supported by other infantry + vehicles + recon + arty + abilities, so what's the point of asking this. It won't be supported by all that, usually you're attacking with 1-2 penals, a T70 and a flamer in the midgame. Late game probably a T34/76 and maybe an MG extra replace the T70. Having 1 or 2 of these penals have PTRS kills your firepower when pushing.

30 Jan 2020, 21:01 PM
#498
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Can we consider removing retreat from raketens? They're really cheesey against USF because of the lack of rocket arty and can just retreat away after gibbing tanks in blobs of 2.
30 Jan 2020, 21:05 PM
#499
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

Can we consider removing retreat from raketens? They're really cheesey against USF because of the lack of rocket arty and can just retreat away after gibbing tanks in blobs of 2.


Yes when they become Pak 40 clones in terms of stats. Otherwise Raks would be complete garbage. They are already worse than regular AT-guns as it is and at the same time more expensive than USF M1.
30 Jan 2020, 21:05 PM
#500
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403

Can we consider removing retreat from raketens? They're really cheesey against USF because of the lack of rocket arty and can just retreat away after gibbing tanks in blobs of 2.


A valid argument is also that the raketen released with the worst range of any AT gun in the game, and had the retreat option because it had to expose itself compared to other AT guns, but now it has been buffed to match other AT guns. Should be updated.
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