Panzerwerfer fix
9 Jan 2020, 00:02 AM
#61
Posts: 1351
To me Katusha is much better than werfer. Area denial is a guaranteed result of its barrage. You can deny VPs etc. If you are lucky or the opponent sloppy, you will wipe with it more than with werfer. With werfer you will waste your barrages more often. To me the required change would be shorter time between the sound and rockets hitting the closer the range.
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9 Jan 2020, 00:03 AM
#62
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
To me Katusha is much better than werfer. Area denial is a guaranteed result of its barrage. You can deny VPs etc. If you are lucky or the opponent sloppy, you will wipe with it more than with werfer. With werfer you will waste your barrages more often. To me the required change would be shorter time between the sound and rockets hitting the closer the range.
That's because katy IS area denial weapon(this is specifically why it doesn't shoot all of its 16 rockets in continuous barrage), while pwerfer is "you no longer have this squad" alpha strike weapon.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Jan 2020, 00:09 AM
#63
Posts: 1289
To me Katusha is much better than werfer. Area denial is a guaranteed result of its barrage. You can deny VPs etc. If you are lucky or the opponent sloppy, you will wipe with it more than with werfer. With werfer you will waste your barrages more often. To me the required change would be shorter time between the sound and rockets hitting the closer the range.
Precision strike was removed from soviets mortars and katty because it garanteed wipes with no reaction time.
You want its primary barrage to be like that? And how is that not op? Ow i get it if ost can do it its fine.
With werfer you waste barrages more often but when they hit they are more devistating then the katty,s for sure. The werfer is fine, people just want an easy wipe machine for their main faction.
9 Jan 2020, 00:18 AM
#64
Posts: 1351
That's because katy IS area denial weapon(this is specifically why it doesn't shoot all of its 16 rockets in continuous barrage), while pwerfer is "you no longer have this squad" alpha strike weapon.
Imo it is exactly why katusha is more useful=better (you no longer have this squad is exaggerated and requires really much better micro than from opponents' to make it work like that - same skill level it will be "you wasted your barrage again")
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9 Jan 2020, 00:22 AM
#65
Posts: 1351
Precision strike was removed from soviets mortars and katty because it garanteed wipes with no reaction time.
You want its primary barrage to be like that? And how is that not op? Ow i get it if ost can do it its fine.
With werfer you waste barrages more often but when they hit they are more devistating then the katty,s for sure. The werfer is fine, people just want an easy wipe machine for their main faction.
I agree that making it fall in shorter time might make it too deadly. But then it should become more area denial toll too, rather than semi reliable (basically requiring only opponent micro to suck) to be effective. Generally, alpha strike indirect fire unit seems a bad idea (Your mortar arguments seem to confirm it), unless maybe you just make it cheaper than Katy and leave as is.
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9 Jan 2020, 01:14 AM
#66
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Make the officer non doc then we can talk.
Why
9 Jan 2020, 01:18 AM
#67
Posts: 5279
Imo it is exactly why katusha is more useful=better (you no longer have this squad is exaggerated and requires really much better micro than from opponents' to make it work like that - same skill level it will be "you wasted your barrage again")
If you judge by area denial then yes the area denial weapon is better. Funny how that works.
#stalinwept
9 Jan 2020, 03:42 AM
#68
Posts: 1563
if people are gonna argue that werfer us fine due to the officers op insta 2nd barrage. Then they should make it non doc
Why
9 Jan 2020, 09:03 AM
#69
Posts: 1392
...
That is true, but it depends on the rocket speed etc. could be changed. Or would you say Katjusha, Calliope and Mattress are op?
My spot is, the Panzerwerfer was the only mobile weapon-platform was able to change direct fire with mortar-mode. So, why not simply use the most logical solution? ^^
9 Jan 2020, 09:50 AM
#70
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
if people are gonna argue that werfer us fine due to the officers op insta 2nd barrage. Then they should make it non doc
Nice straw man lol
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9 Jan 2020, 11:01 AM
#71
Posts: 5279
That is true, but it depends on the rocket speed etc. could be changed. Or would you say Katjusha, Calliope and Mattress are op?
My spot is, the Panzerwerfer was the only mobile weapon-platform was able to change direct fire with mortar-mode. So, why not simply use the most logical solution? ^^
Because it's unnecessary and people who want it to be able to tank multiple shots and remove the travel time are not interested in learning how to use it properly and changing the format of the weapon to cater to this who, again, don't want to learn how to use the current one properly adds unnecessary work and takes resources away from actually under performing units and mechanics like the entirety of the British faction.
#stalinwept
9 Jan 2020, 12:08 PM
#72
Posts: 1289
I agree that making it fall in shorter time might make it too deadly. But then it should become more area denial toll too, rather than semi reliable (basically requiring only opponent micro to suck) to be effective. Generally, alpha strike indirect fire unit seems a bad idea (Your mortar arguments seem to confirm it), unless maybe you just make it cheaper than Katy and leave as is.
I dont see a reason to make it cheaper. The katty is more vunerable. Small arms hurt a katty more then a werfer. The longer spread out barrage only adds to this. Because it needs to expose it self longer in a close range barrage. They katty has no turret or any other weapon on it.
I think the werfer is fine as is.
9 Jan 2020, 12:17 PM
#73
Posts: 1392
Because it's unnecessary and people who want it to be able to tank multiple shots and remove the travel time are not interested in learning how to use it properly and changing the format of the weapon to cater to this who, again, don't want to learn how to use the current one properly adds unnecessary work and takes resources away from actually under performing units and mechanics like the entirety of the British faction.
That is true, can't say no. But it is sad, because CoH2 waisted most potential by simply beeing not accurate, so many things had to become fantasy-balanced, cutting into the game logic. There are some may wrong animations, false fx_, complete unlogical DPS. CoH1 made many things way better in Vanilla, I would simply copy some units (or imitate them).
9 Jan 2020, 13:47 PM
#74
Posts: 1351
I dont see a reason to make it cheaper. The katty is more vunerable. Small arms hurt a katty more then a werfer. The longer spread out barrage only adds to this. Because it needs to expose it self longer in a close range barrage. They katty has no turret or any other weapon on it.
I think the werfer is fine as is.
IMO talking about durability here makes little sense. Both are very voulnerable. Of course it could account for like 10-20 manpower. The real difference is the fact that a short range Katty barrage is really deadly and lands rockets very quickly, it also denies the area. Katty's price should be higher because of it. Definitely a werfer shouldn't be more expensive.
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9 Jan 2020, 14:57 PM
#75
Posts: 1563
Hmmm.... sure.
That is true, but it depends on the rocket speed etc. could be changed. Or would you say Katjusha, Calliope and Mattress are op?
My spot is, the Panzerwerfer was the only mobile weapon-platform was able to change direct fire with mortar-mode. So, why not simply use the most logical solution? ^^
9 Jan 2020, 15:54 PM
#76
Posts: 578
pwerfer is "you no longer have this squad" alpha strike weapon.
Sometimes I wonder if we play the same game....... Oh wait.
9 Jan 2020, 17:14 PM
#77
Posts: 1220
Troll thread that's for sure
9 Jan 2020, 19:16 PM
#78
Posts: 1289
IMO talking about durability here makes little sense. Both are very voulnerable. Of course it could account for like 10-20 manpower. The real difference is the fact that a short range Katty barrage is really deadly and lands rockets very quickly, it also denies the area. Katty's price should be higher because of it. Definitely a werfer shouldn't be more expensive.
Yes both are vunrable, one is more vunerable. That defenitly should be counted for in the price.
The werfer barrage is more concentrated and more deadly when it hits all at once. The katty is only deadly up close and denies the area during the longer barrage. Again this exposes the more vunerable katty to return fire longer then the werfer. Again the werfer also has a turret and fire all within a second. Meaning less time being exposed to return fire.
Perfectly balanced between ost and soviet.
I might be out of date here but domt katty and werder both cost 360mp and 80 or 85 fuel?
9 Jan 2020, 21:35 PM
#79
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
if people are gonna argue that werfer us fine due to the officers op insta 2nd barrage. Then they should make it non doc
But it's fine without the officer... Nothing wrong with the werfer
10 Jan 2020, 05:02 AM
#80
Posts: 789
The werfer cannot do area denial
The katushka can
The werfer can alpha strike at close range
The katushka can alpha strike at close range
The werfer costs more
Werfer costs more and does less.
An incendiary or spaced (5 bursts of 2) barrage would not make it OP at alpha strike and would allow it to perform at the same level as the opposing unit with the same cost.
The katushka can
The werfer can alpha strike at close range
The katushka can alpha strike at close range
The werfer costs more
Werfer costs more and does less.
An incendiary or spaced (5 bursts of 2) barrage would not make it OP at alpha strike and would allow it to perform at the same level as the opposing unit with the same cost.
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
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