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russian armor

State of the Soviets

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8 Dec 2019, 13:26 PM
#241
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Dec 2019, 13:11 PMVipper

That is simply cherry picking stats to create a distorted impression.

The stock Comet/Churchill have 290/240 armor and then there are allot more high armor doctrinal tanks and commanders that have them available to allies than there to axis.

Stug/JP have 59% and 70% vs Comet/Churchill.

The FF has 81% chance to penetrate a Panther (highest Ostheer stock unit) max range and SU-85/M36 has 85%.

Vs a brumbar 88% and 92%.

The only stock unit with high armor is the OKW KT.

Increasing the penetration of JP/Stug might make the "way too OP" but it would bring them inline with allied TDs that are already "way too OP" that not only have higher penetration but they also get penetration bonus with veterancy.

Imo IS-2 armor (and other similar units) could easily have their Armor greatly reduced and move to veterancy bonus instead.


I get what your saying about allied td,s. But stock axis armour is jus way higher specificly the stock kt has twice the armour most allies can bring out stock. Allies need a doctrine to do the same. So allied td,s being way op have the kt being stock as a valid reason. Unless deflection or x% chance to do deflection damage is implemented.
8 Dec 2019, 14:02 PM
#242
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



I get what your saying about allied td,s. But stock axis armour is jus way higher specificly the stock kt has twice the armour most allies can bring out stock. Allies need a doctrine to do the same. So allied td,s being way op have the kt being stock as a valid reason. Unless deflection or x% chance to do deflection damage is implemented.

If KT is the argument (and people prefer Tiger over it) simply make it doctrinal and tone down allied TDs the game would be in much better place...

or add any other restrictions or nerf needed to the KT.

For instance one could redesign KT to have great defensive properties but lower the effectiveness of the gun be less powerful. Or make then gun good only AI or only in AP or have the gun work like ISU-152 with HE/AP shells or having a very long reload.


Or one could apply the same changes I suggested for IS-2, lowering armor to 300-320 and have each veterancy level increase armor.

There are many solutions but having allied TDs being OP because KT exist although few people use it make little sense.
8 Dec 2019, 15:18 PM
#243
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Dec 2019, 14:02 PMVipper

If KT is the argument (and people prefer Tiger over it) simply make it doctrinal and tone down allied TDs the game would be in much better place...

or add any other restrictions or nerf needed to the KT.

For instance one could redesign KT to have great defensive properties but lower the effectiveness of the gun be less powerful. Or make then gun good only AI or only in AP or have the gun work like ISU-152 with HE/AP shells or having a very long reload.


Or one could apply the same changes I suggested for IS-2, lowering armor to 300-320 and have each veterancy level increase armor.

There are many solutions but having allied TDs being OP because KT exist although few people use it make little sense.


Very true, but they opted for the easier fix. Moving it to doctrines is something i support for a while now.

We dont see the kt a lot because its counters where buffed and the kt itself got some nerfs and is slow.

All factions must have answers to the stock and doc units of the opponents. The kt was just so redicoulus to be a stock unit in the first place.
The amount of recources and effort required to take it out was out of preportion. The shreck blob made it even worse. Imo that does make sence to buuf the counter specificly for such a unit. It was build every game, and when build it was gg 1 or 2 minutes later mostly.
8 Dec 2019, 15:43 PM
#244
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Dec 2019, 13:11 PMVipper



The FF has 81% chance to penetrate a Panther (highest Ostheer stock unit) max range and SU-85/M36 has 85%.

Vs a brumbar 88% and 92%.

The only stock unit with high armor is the OKW KT.



And i believe all but 3 Axis tanks, have 0% to counter fire against that, think about that: 0%. I just cant fathom gameplay odds that so oppressive.

Im sure all Okw players will gladly send KT to the docs if it meant 60Td are brought inline with gameplay dynamics.

MMX
9 Dec 2019, 02:01 AM
#245
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1



And i believe all but 3 Axis tanks, have 0% to counter fire against that, think about that: 0%. I just cant fathom gameplay odds that so oppressive.



zero chance to fire back? i'm sure i'm not the only one who can't fathom how you came up with this number.
9 Dec 2019, 10:47 AM
#247
avatar of Leo251

Posts: 311

Relic. Please. Hear your community this time.

Fix Soviets!!! But in the good way. Don't send them to the oblivion.
9 Dec 2019, 10:50 AM
#248
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

Dear Santa Claus,

for christmas next patch, I wish for Soviet Cheeseborne nerfs. I have been a good boy all year and only sometimes been naughty.

Thank you.

blvckdream
9 Dec 2019, 10:54 AM
#249
avatar of Leo251

Posts: 311

Dear Santa Claus,

for christmas next patch, I wish for Soviet Cheeseborne nerfs. I have been a good boy all year and only sometimes been naughty.

Thank you.

blvckdream

:clap: yeah, something like that.
9 Dec 2019, 10:59 AM
#250
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2181 | Subs: 2

Dear Santa Claus,

for christmas next patch, I wish for "Insert any fraction" Cheeseborne nerfs. I have been a good boy all year and only sometimes been naughty.

Thank you.

blvckdream
9 Dec 2019, 11:02 AM
#251
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



True. USF recon and airborne are horrible too. OKW Luftwaffle doctrine with do it all Falls isn't much better either.
9 Dec 2019, 17:45 PM
#253
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

Nerf parachutes (and whatever the fuck soviet's "airborne" guards are).
9 Dec 2019, 19:03 PM
#254
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Doesn't IS-2 has higher CP requirement compare to Tiger & Pershing? The IS-2 is designed to fight static type game play thus increased armor against AT gun spam. I think increasing its cost or CP requirement is more appropriate.

I only say this because each heavy tank has an "identity" as Katitof mentioned. Pershing = glass canon, Tiger = multi role and IS-2 = defense buster.
11 Dec 2019, 03:19 AM
#256
avatar of Ritter

Posts: 255

Permanently Banned
Very odd thread.
Soviets need a buff.
Cant complain more how useless the 7 men upgrade is. COnscripts suck! They are unable to kill anyhing and die like flies.
IS2 is underpowerd and has always been. It needs a buff.
Give IS2 more damage to tanks, and make gun more accurate so it can actually hit infantry. It also is way overpriced. 21 pop? No! It must be 18!
SU85 is fine. T34s are a joke, they need to be reduced in pop and fuel cost to 8pop and 80 fuel.
Nobody makes t34s unless he\s a noob.
11 Dec 2019, 11:44 AM
#257
avatar of The Spycrab

Posts: 39

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 03:19 AMRitter
Very odd thread.
Soviets need a buff.
Cant complain more how useless the 7 men upgrade is. COnscripts suck! They are unable to kill anyhing and die like flies.
IS2 is underpowerd and has always been. It needs a buff.
Give IS2 more damage to tanks, and make gun more accurate so it can actually hit infantry. It also is way overpriced. 21 pop? No! It must be 18!
SU85 is fine. T34s are a joke, they need to be reduced in pop and fuel cost to 8pop and 80 fuel.
Nobody makes t34s unless he\s a noob.


7 man is very good epically as a blob v blob fight, they die like like flies but are super cheap now and reinforce really fast.
IS-2 has the best armor considering the axis lack of heavy AT weapons and great AI but AT wise doesn’t compare to the tiger, but you pare it with 2 SU-85s and a tiger isnt a problem really.
T-34-76 (and all medium tanks really) are anti-infantry in design, hell even the british premium tanks are anti-infantry. Even then a spare T-34 is a great snare as not only does it stun a vehicle allowing IS-2 and SU-85 to get more shots off, but also diverts any new tanks fire as its usually the closest unless the enemy want their tanks to slow down for a second
12 Dec 2019, 01:47 AM
#260
avatar of borobadger

Posts: 184

Soviets are broken OP. Conscripts are honestly just too good at the minute
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