Login

russian armor

USF Commander Reshuffle

6 Nov 2019, 09:54 AM
#41
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13775 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Nov 2019, 09:50 AMVipper

That is an opinion not a fact and not matter how many times it is repeated it will not become a fact.

Bazookas are not bad, but they aren't going to take down any high armor target, that's a fact.
USF ATG is inadequate and muni ability can be dodged, just move back for 20 seconds when you see it used, that's a fact.
Faction has only a single unit capable of reliable 200+ pen that isn't limited to 1, that's a fact.

Your opinion about facts not being facts is just an opinion and not matter how many times it is repeated it will not become a fact.
6 Nov 2019, 10:24 AM
#42
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 834

Meanwhile, there are still no long and high ranked USF games out there that are won without Jacksons, and people still argue that USF are OK without Jackson (if they do, they heavily rely on doctorinal solutions and stop gaps)

Clearly wheraboos who never played USF :facepalm:

USF would totally collapse without Jackson. It'd be back to WFA release when there was an invisible timer slowly ticking down in the background and USF would just auto-lose their match when it reaches zero (too many heavy tanks, and no counter).
6 Nov 2019, 10:36 AM
#43
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6401 | Subs: 1


Bazookas are not bad, but they aren't going to take down any high armor target, that's a fact.

No it is not a fact, since bazookas as all hand held weapon do deflection damage and do almost guaranteed damage to all high armor targets. And with access to super bazookas USF actually have some of the top doctrinal AT infatry in the game that can take out some of the highest armor target like Elephant and JT just fine.


USF ATG is inadequate and muni ability can be dodged, just move back for 20 seconds when you see it used, that's a fact.

The sabot munition last 30 sec not 20 so try to get your facts right. And M1 is not inadequate it works just fine vs its intended targets


Faction has only a single unit capable of reliable 200+ pen that isn't limited to 1, that's a fact.

That literally mean very little, Ostheer/OKW/Soviet also have a single vehicle with with penetration 200+ that is not limited to 1.


Your opinion about facts not being facts is just an opinion and not matter how many times it is repeated it will not become a fact.

I will not even bother respond to your personal attacks especially since the make absolutely no sense. I am not the the topic of this thread so taking about what I do or do not do is simply off topic.

Now can you pls take a break from your crusade of trying to be prove me wrong, so we can spare the people of this forum pointless posts?
6 Nov 2019, 12:22 PM
#44
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 879

Meanwhile, there are still no long and high ranked USF games out there that are won without Jacksons, and people still argue that USF are OK without Jackson (if they do, they heavily rely on doctorinal solutions and stop gaps)

Clearly wheraboos who never played USF :facepalm:

USF would totally collapse without Jackson. It'd be back to WFA release when there was an invisible timer slowly ticking down in the background and USF would just auto-lose their match when it reaches zero (too many heavy tanks, and no counter).


Nobody said remove the Jackson entirely. Nerfing a unit doesn’t delete or make it unusable.
6 Nov 2019, 12:33 PM
#45
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13775 | Subs: 7



Nobody said remove the Jackson entirely. Nerfing a unit doesn’t delete or make it unusable.

Hi there, let me introduce you to Maxim HMG.
6 Nov 2019, 12:36 PM
#46
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 879


Hi there, let me introduce you to Maxim HMG.


That was an overnerf.

JLI were nerfed, but they’re balanced. Falls were nerfed, but they’re still overperforming.

Point is, Jackson needs to be toned down, not deleted. Crying that usf can’t win without the jackson isn’t an argument since nobody is gonna delete it anyway.
6 Nov 2019, 13:07 PM
#47
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 834



That was an overnerf.

JLI were nerfed, but they’re balanced. Falls were nerfed, but they’re still overperforming.

Point is, Jackson needs to be toned down, not deleted. Crying that usf can’t win without the jackson isn’t an argument since nobody is gonna delete it anyway.


A lot of people are for the idea to nerf the unit so badly, that it will land on the pile of "units-that-were-once-good-then-nerfed-to-death". Some people even defend the idea that USF will still work even if Jackson is nerfed to uselessness.

There is no USF without a good Jackson. Allies are currently just a repository of a handful of crutch units.
6 Nov 2019, 16:55 PM
#48
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1378



A lot of people are for the idea to nerf the unit so badly, that it will land on the pile of "units-that-were-once-good-then-nerfed-to-death". Some people even defend the idea that USF will still work even if Jackson is nerfed to uselessness.

There is no USF without a good Jackson. Allies are currently just a repository of a handful of crutch units.


I agree with this 100%. Jackson is the lifeline of AT for USF late game and I remember how terrible it was to play Allies with WFA came out.
6 Nov 2019, 18:12 PM
#49
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6313 | Subs: 1



I agree with this 100%. Jackson is the lifeline of AT for USF late game and I remember how terrible it was to play Allies with WFA came out.


On teamgames. 1v1 was fine. On 2v2 you at least could finish the game before ever thinking of requiring a Jackson. Meh, good luck playing 3v3+.

The unit could be changed, the issue comes from how the change is applied. The problem is that the unit holds down the whole late game for the faction on teamgames, which have a whole different meta than smaller modes. There's no such thing as "combined arms" and smaller scale engagements, when artillery and volume of units are kings. AT vehicles can't be wiped as easily as infantry and AT gun walls. They also have better speed reaction.
6 Nov 2019, 18:37 PM
#50
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1680

There have been countless examples of a faction completely relying on a single unit for it to carry the game, after being nerfed or even overnerfed the faction is adjusted and compensated and then the game keeps going.

I think those doom prophets should learn to adapt instead of having such a narrow mindset.

Nerf jackson wouldnt ruin USF, please do not exaggerate
7 Nov 2019, 02:26 AM
#51
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3234 | Subs: 1


Bazookas are not bad, but they aren't going to take down any high armor target, that's a fact.
USF ATG is inadequate and muni ability can be dodged, just move back for 20 seconds when you see it used, that's a fact.
Faction has only a single unit capable of reliable 200+ pen that isn't limited to 1, that's a fact.

Your opinion about facts not being facts is just an opinion and not matter how many times it is repeated it will not become a fact.

See though that's the issue, it IS the only heavy armour counter, but it also counters anything below just fine as well, and it's survival traits make it exceptionally good at it. Nobody is saying it SHOULDN'T counter heavies, we are saying it shouldn't counter heavies as well as it does while ALSO doing everything else exceptionally.

It's not an issue of the Jackson is the best TD, it's that it is by such a wide margin.

Something has to give, which is why I support improving medium counters and making the Jackson worse against mediums as a route we could take.

Side note--people whining that no Jackson being op means no usf being viable.... Obviously you agree there is a problem then ya dolts. The idea is to have it possible that losing your Jackson doesn't instantly mean GG. BALANCING the Jackson would come with BALANCING the other AT as well...
7 Nov 2019, 09:35 AM
#52
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6401 | Subs: 1

Moving Rangers/combined arm away from heavy cavalry commander are solid change imo. Flamer assault engineers and off map smoke could become an issue thou.

I guess one could try to remove the flamer upgrade from As.Eng and give them incendiary grenades and/or Thompson upgrade option.
7 Nov 2019, 09:43 AM
#53
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 869

There have been countless examples of a faction completely relying on a single unit for it to carry the game, after being nerfed or even overnerfed the faction is adjusted and compensated and then the game keeps going.

I think those doom prophets should learn to adapt instead of having such a narrow mindset.

Nerf jackson wouldnt ruin USF, please do not exaggerate
Its easy to say when u play only versus ai
7 Nov 2019, 15:53 PM
#54
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1680

Its easy to say when u play only versus ai

Actually i played quite a lot against other players to reach my conclusions. I also see frequently livestreams and casted matches. Its not that hard to understand the game and its meta, compared to other RTS.

Its such a lowkey to hit the person instead of the argument. Very sad of you, not to mention your whole intent of shut me down proves my point right. Next time try a more elaborate style, like katitof does.

I will say it again, factions that rely on a single unit are a clear symptom of a upcoming nerf.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Oberkommando West flag N1cko
  • Oberkommando West flag Scotch1
  • Soviets flag Frosty
  • Soviets flag Beatricks Swire
uploaded by Frost

Board Info

308 users are online: 3 members and 305 guests
Vipper, aerafield, MMX
91 posts in the last 24h
1196 posts in the last week
5218 posts in the last month
Registered members: 68586
Welcome our newest member, fverniced
Most online: 918 users on 27 Oct 2019, 01:03 AM