russian armor

Is USF cluster bomb too unbalanced now?

25 Oct 2019, 05:40 AM
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1140

Does quite a lot of damages especially to a more static faction like Wehr. Seems like even on retreat you will sustain some bad damages because of the low drop range. Also stun tanks for while.

Wehr has a scatter arty, while not needing as much muni as cb, it does poor damages in comparison.

Suggestions is to reduce damages if a squad is in retreat status. Possible?
25 Oct 2019, 05:53 AM
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 418

The wehr light artillery barrage is indeed far weaker than the cluster bombs. The comparison is usually the Ju87 fragmentation run, but IMO that ability arrives too fast anyway.

To be honest, I would like to see the cluster bombs do reduced damage but have a shorter delay. This way you have guaranteed damage because it arrives faster, but less wipes because the damage is lower.
25 Oct 2019, 06:17 AM
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3607 | Subs: 1

needs a price increase and maybe a slight speed reduction. Nothing more.
25 Oct 2019, 06:25 AM
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 607

ost frag bomb delete crew weapons, too.
25 Oct 2019, 07:44 AM
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1140

Frag bomb is small area like stuka bomb. And seems more avoidable than cluster bomb
25 Oct 2019, 08:09 AM
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8291 | Subs: 1

Both the cluster bomb and I&R are too effective, especially vs ATGs.

Generally speaking the buffing of USF off map was a bad idea especially since USF get stock recon planes and barrages.
25 Oct 2019, 08:14 AM
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1140

Oh yes for bringing up the IR arty.

I watched a cast, the usf keeps dropping it, like almost instantly on the target area and very explosive.

I think pathfinder no need upgrade weapons, hence they have enough ammo to drop the arty
25 Oct 2019, 08:15 AM
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

Cluster bombs are fine but fragmentation bombing is broken. It comes almost instantly near map edges. Needs more delay.
26 Oct 2019, 02:06 AM
avatar of blancat

Posts: 788

USF cluster bombs fall very slowly

If you can't avoid it, it's your problem
26 Oct 2019, 03:20 AM
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 984

They are far too cheap for what they do. Paths arty is also overboard. Fragmentation run is expensive. Any nerfs should lower its price, still I'm against changing it as it is probably the only sensible offmap ostheer has (I'm not including patroling planes here).
28 Oct 2019, 15:55 PM
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 593


Skip to 3/4 of the video for testing air strikes against infantry.
28 Oct 2019, 15:57 PM
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2638

Either reduce the speed at which they drop, or reduce the area.
28 Oct 2019, 17:18 PM
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1140

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Oct 2019, 02:06 AMblancat

USF cluster bombs fall very slowly

If you can't avoid it, it's your problem

Falls slowly? Not by much slower than frag bombs it seem. But it covers a wider area, and considering slow Wehr team weapons packup times or even retreating infantry.

I think it is too cheap as shown by the video above. How much wehr scatter arty cost? I think 100. For 10 more, wow CB is impressively unbalanced.

Thanks for the video.
28 Oct 2019, 19:16 PM
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 984

Cool video! :)
The only problem I see is that USF players can click slightly behind paks, mgs, mortars and then there is no chance to avoid them. Either you have to go forward into enemy units and die or go back and die. Also more often than not a good player will damage your units first (like before throwing a nade) and then cluster bombs will kill 100%. Runs can be avoided more easily moving to sides.
28 Oct 2019, 19:56 PM
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450


Skip to 3/4 of the video for testing air strikes against infantry.

That is the wrong way to use frags or ptabs. Most players will face the strikes so the enemy can't reverse key out of it. You are better off doing a 90 degree turn than hitting the 'u' key in a real game.

As for the usf strikes, they are designed to fill the role of rocket artillery, Recon support does not have caliope priests, or pershing.
28 Oct 2019, 20:08 PM
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 984

As for the usf strikes, they are designed to fill the role of rocket artillery, Recon support does not have caliope priests, or pershing.

Then it should be paid for with manpower and fuel. If you can put fuel and manpower on other units such as m36, elite infantry AND get powerful cheap strikes it leads to imbalance.

Remember also about scotts and pack howie.

Generally cluster bombs are OP looking at their price.

28 Oct 2019, 20:33 PM
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 817

I would suggest adding an additional 1 second delay to the delivery of this ability, It comes quite quickly and setup teams dodge it by a razor thin margin.(though they will get out if you react instantly) Probably also a slight 5-10 muni cost increase, the doctrine is heavy on munitions, i think this will matter but still leave it as a viable expenditure

I think this would force more judicious use of the ability but still retain it's effectiveness when used at the right time
28 Oct 2019, 21:37 PM
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

It would be better off if usf could get a caliope, then adjust the troublesome airstrikes. But I doubt that is going to happen. Knowing the stupidity of some of the members in the balance team, cluster bombs will receive a nerf without concern for overall balance.
28 Oct 2019, 22:35 PM
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 984

Balance team seems to be doing a great job as the game is really well balanced. I guess they have to somehow balance it and not discourage players used to certain playstyles based on some imbalances to some extend.

But back to the topic. The whole recon support commander is just a bit too much in a few ways. Cluster bombs are just too cheap for what you get. If you use them right they will wipe many more units than some allied players would admit.
29 Oct 2019, 02:17 AM
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 967 | Subs: 1

An increase in muni cost would be good, also maybe a slight reduction in area of effect for more lethality in the AOE. Therefore players cant spam them on singular support weapons constantly and also not force instant retreats and allow someone to move out of the way. However if someone stays in the area then the unit gets killed.
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