Shocks are still good. The fact that smoke nades and damage nades are on the same cooldown is really holding them back right now because a lot of other units are able to do that just fine with the one exception being shocks. We could see it in the last hotfix but it doesn't look like its a priority atm.
They are good, Airborne LMG is better and reg guards are great. They have amazing utility, good enough AI and can work as crutch AT if caught off guard. Every top cast or stream involves regular guards or SVT conscripts.
For shocks I think the issue is they really can’t branch out like other elite squads. If they were given fire superiority instead of posh airborne It would give them more utility. Airborne could then get tactical assault to differentiate them.
Edit: Don't want to derail but Assault Guards should have smoke instead of Airborne SMG, airborne has camo so it can use that while Assault guards get focused down before they can get Vet. |
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You guys remember when they buffed DP28 to Gren lmg levels. Shit was insane, made shocks pointless and they never really recovered. |
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I had similar issue, I fixed it by camping outside of bestbuy and getting a 3070.
In all seriousness I think it was the most recent patch, I still get occasional hiccups even though my computer is more than strong enough and I have good internet. It is infuriating since it feels like game is lagging then goes away. It might be one of the settings. |
I can't speak for 2v2 as I don't play it. You'll have to ask the 1v1 experts what they think. I see it virtually every match involving USF in 3v3 to the point I assume they will use it. Usually by high ranked players, ie: ppl you can't just outplay 2x to defeat. One person accused me of maphacking because I saw his AT guns coming via Kubel vet I but was perfectly fine with his triple Paths seeing 70+% of my army for that match.
If you have map control and have bled the enemy hard on manpower because of their snipetastic combat profiles, the muni issues are greatly lessened. Maybe even getting a cache down early. Maybe I'm overestimating BAR Paths, maybe not. Either way that Pathblob is bad yes and practically screams Luchs/Flak HT buuuuuut they can just see the Flak HT so there's that. 222 doesn't really do much. Or they get an AT gun dropped on demand, at which point you can't do anything with your LVs/ med tanks/Ostwind if it is indeed an open map. So artillery, Tigers and Obers heavy!
I think in 1v1 they are not as powerful due to their slow firing nature so to get the snipes going they need to blob which is not as easy to pull off since they are fragile/expensive/high reinforce. A Luchs rush would work great since they can hopefully chase down on retreat and it should have a bit of time before USF can call in AT gun unless they went captain. I'm thinking a luchs rush with either Falls or JLI can be devastating it just require people to get out of their comfort zone. Maybe a Battlegroup back tech to keep healing so that Pathfinder snipes dont get you.
In team games shit is broken. since their weaknesses can be easily overcome thru the power of teamwork. Also only 1 bar is really needed on them, its not that they are great its that it allows them to create their own snipe chances which are what they are balanced around(~40% health). With 2 bars they do it better but like someone said they can drop fairly quickly.
I would probably remove their ability to equip bars and give them some other upgrade. Maybe all snipers so it becomes extremely slow firing infantry that cannot operate on its own. Pushing it back to CP1 would make them irrelevant again unless they got buffed in another way. |
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I played this guy literally the match before he beat me, lost to many engineers couldn't back tech or tech up. I guessed he was going to play me the same way, Grens with early hard push along with Jaeger command squad and OST T2 skip into Ostwind.
I go with engi/x3 penal opening, since all his units have snare I decide to skip clown car and focus on beating him when he rushes me. He aggressively caps left side of map and attempts to swing around. I notice area blinking so I pull Penal back to try and catch him out of position. He brings 3 grens to right side of map I have 2 engi and 2 Penals, I push him back hard but lose a engi squad(not again). I decap his points and get his cutoff also to slow him down. He ends up doubling my penal with 2 grens but I threw down satchel which he didn't notice in time and I get a wipe. Game is going my way hard at this point, I get shocks and T70 out and keep pressure up, force some retreats and get lots of map control. He is pretty much holding on to get his Ostwind out.
I build T2, get MG out to control middle building so I have sight to rotate as needed. I save up MP for AT gun since his medium should be hitting about now.
And I fuck up BIG, I mis-clicked and built another MG but don't notice until I see his Ostwind and I am wondering why the FUCK I have 2 MG. I start to Panic and he pushes me hard, I was way ahead in Kills which he quickly starts to catch up. I finally get AT gun out, push where ever his Ostwind isn't and try to slow down his capping. I get out 2nd At gun and decide it is to late for KV8 since I am close to 11 CP and got close enough gas wise. I end up having to stall reinforcements but get out IS2 and quickly get back to playing aggressive. He has Ost/P4 but due to T2 skip he can't push me reliably so I try to bully him as often as I can. He builds a Stug, so we play tag a couple times until I catch his Stug with a PTRS Penal get the snare off and push with IS2, I kill it and the P4 but get snared and he kills it with Stuka dive bomb. Not a bad trade, but not a good one either.
I decide to stall for 2nd IS2, I still got T70 and 2AT guns so I can afford to wait it out. He commits to killing my T70 with his Ostwind, which I promptly kill as well, he dive bombs my At guns, 1 survives and he beats up most of my army. I get IS2 out but it is a lot of work from here. I play it safe and injure his squad and force some retreats, he gets P4 and Stug again. We prod each other but I am struggling with bleed and map control, IS2 is really helping but I start to build T34 to help stop bleed. He catches my IS2 on its own against At gun/Stug and P4 and he rushes me. I reverse to keep frontal armor and beat him up on retreat, I kill the P4 but I am 2 hits away from dying. I manage to get behind him for a second and beat up his stug he gets free hits me. 1 more hit and its dead.
MY lord and savior hits the field, the almighty T34 comes in and the double team kills him before he can get the IS2. Armor has swung my way, but I am still low on infantry. I have less than 50 points but I slowly start to build more shocks to deal with all his MGs, I get wipes and eventual a few more wipes which he can't afford. IS2 eventually gets Vet3 and I pretty much take over. I end up winning on the back of the IS2.
IT was a great game, lots of momentum swings and was interesting using Shocks instead of airborne for the back tech strat. Airborne LMG allow for a lot less bleed and I feel are overall easier to keep alive. However for that late game no vet durability nothing is beating shocks which also get smoke to help with decaps and just being a nuisance. Ambush worked ok, doesn't really feel like it should be a whole command point but double AT guns make short work of mediums so it is understandable. The flame call in is ok, works great against support units trying to hold on to point but you can't really control how it falls. Overall, everything is useful with the back tech strategy.
Thanks for reading and please give it a watch if you have a chance. |
Read this thread then had some ideas:
If you get lucky enough to pick up an LMG, that's obviously a great squad to use stand your ground on, or alternatively if you have an ally who is able to equip your squad with a weapon (e.g. SVTs).
You could also merge cons into this squad with weapon upgrade and stand your ground whacked on.
You could also do this quite easily with your flamer engie. Rush him up with a few cons, stick stand your ground on it, enemy's best option is probably to try move out of flamer range, given you can't move. But everyone's natural reaction when flamer is close is to focus that unit, so it could be interesting.
Fight to the death basically speeds up engagements, same amount of increased lethality and vulnerability. So you want to use that when you would win the engagement anyway, but this will let you win it faster, and hence more chance of getting a wipe.
Also, using fight to the death will likely draw fire to the unit it's used on seen as it is both more dangerous and more vulnerable, but this is drawing fire off the officer who is also a decent combat unit and would likely be getting focused first otherwise.
I had similar thoughts but was more thinking with SMG weapon drop with Fight to the death, most inf will melt especially if the Penal is Vet2/3 it could also be used with Soviet reserve but I feel SVT conscripts are better than PPSH conscripts. I think it mostly comes down to play style, with NKVD tactics most go several penals with commissar so the SMG would be a welcome wiper especially if placed in a retreat path. The Airborne player can stick to SVT conscripts and provide AT support so that Penals can focus on assaulting. |
If you could last for 45 mins against Vonivan... hats off to you
I think he was playing with LAG cuz I think I got 3 wipes on him before he turned it up on me. Him going for tiger first really threw a wrench in my T2 back tech KV8 strat. Forgot tiger is easier to get out vs KT. |
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Aren't SVT a downgrade from what the rangers come with now stock? The upgrade would literally have to be X3 PTRS or X3 LMG, maybe PPSH with armor upgrade so they become USF Shocks.
PPSH upgrade for Rifles would be worse than what conscripts get so it would have to be really cheap to take both slots. Maybe give Sprint and Molotov also to make it worth it. |
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Still messing around with Terror Tactics thought I played fairly well, his Jp4 caught me off guard which literally buried me. |
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I have been having a fun time playing with back tech, seems easier to pull off vs OST since they need to tech up to have access to panther. With good MP preservation I have been able to get AT gun along with KV8 out as first tank. With some good hits from infantry or T70 I can get a few wipes during chase down. The main issue I am having is my At gun play is quite weak, lost me several matches even though I outplayed other player. Also I suck with SU85, so to combat my lack of micro throwing down mines on obvious flanks helps me reset. I am starting to think with good pressure and double AT gun maybe Katy should be next unit. I can easily get some chase down wipes along with a way to deal with AT walls without having to expose KV8.
For this game skipped scout car, went engi/x3 Penals. With the MP saved I rushed out Airborne and was able to get T70 at a good time without having to hold on reinforcing or waiting around.
Since he skipped making a LV I built an MG first to slow him down around the middle while harrasing both edges of map.
AT guns did good job of zoning him out while KV8 lurked around and forced some retreats.
Managed to get several decrews but was unable to take advantage of destroying AT guns. Would probably have closed the game out earlier.
Whenever he managed to get something going I used Fear Propaganda to force retreat or allow me to come in and beat up his infantry if he wasn't paying attention.(I think it can cause a rec acc nerf)
I made 2 T34 that didn't do much. This happens to me quite a bit, I think If i switch one out for katy and play a more focused area of map I can create more oppurtunity for wipes. |
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