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its a glasscanon with big range. if you use it that way, it is quite good and sclaes really well with veterancy aswell |
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alright, thnx for the insight! |
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hi,
i see a lot of players picking elite armored in 2v2 AT.
most of them performed subpar, and those who didnt, didnt do good because of their doctrine. imo all abilities but the sturmtiger are really bad, and the ST often comes too late.
now, why do so many people pick this doctrine? |
You are attacked by a swarm of T34's. The T34 guy will focus-fire on your KT (while the JP4 is still out of reach), ramp up deflects, and then proceed to cash the pRNG bias off at your JP4.
Thus:
- Using meatshield will still be incredibly useful
- It will just be less useful than it currently is
well, my mix between system 1 and 2 would mean that that you couldnt ccash in all the bias. one might even add a maximum of stacks that can be brought over from another target
therefore using a meatshield would be as good as now essentially |
Personally, I think that system 1 will look the most intuitive (focus fire -> higher output). However, it will make clusterfuck fights too starcraft-y for my taste.
I have already explained how to game systems #2 and #3. Perhaps system #2 is the best out of the two, although it will diminish the importance of meatshield tanks.
However, if you can think of a hybrid system, I would like to take a look at it.
system 1 is indeed so sc2-like
i dont think that system 2 decreases the importance of meatshields. the paks overall damage output to the p4 will still be lower than if they shot at the p4 from the beginning.
system 3 is easy to exploit, i wouldnt do that.
now what i would propose is a mix between system 1 and 2, so if you change target, or wait, or the range changes, you lose a percentage of the "stacks" (100% would be system 1, 0% would be system 2)
Now I doubt pRNG would be put into the game because of 1 thread on the forum BUT if you could just give us examples of this in affect in CoH2 then you can convince people
its more a discussion for coh3 than for coh2 
i gave an example already. and i assume you have not understood it because you post something like
Lets take Pak 40 for example, should it hit and pen all vehicles after 3 hits? How will it work differently vs mediums and heavies?
of course it shouldnt hit and pen everything after 3 hits and of course it will be different based on the armor. accuracy, penetration, everything still matters!!
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because players will know that after 3 shots he would penetrate that tank he doesnt have to move his unit closer or flank the tank aka TAKE NO RISKS
that is just wrong. coming closer or flanking increases the overall chance of penetration. that doesnt change with pRNG
But lets go to you a Professional Forum poster who thinks before he posts and puts 10 minutes into everypost
well, i study physics and mathmatics. additinionally, i knew about pRNG before this post. i asked you to think 10 minutes, because your posts make you look stupid, which i think you are not.
It seems I spoke too soon.
However, I still don't believe we can simply copy-paste what was done in Dota2 for the following reasons:
1) It seems that Dota2 only applies pRNG (pseudo-RNG) for special types of attacks that have a fixed chance of happening irrespective of the target.
- If you deflect on the King Tiger by how much does your penetration chance increase? (let's call it pRNG bias)
- Do you retain the pRNG bias also when you switch target to the Panther?
- What happens if you attack the Stug, and penetrate. Does this mean you lose the accumulated bonus?
yes, very good point. i think that in the example you gave, you should retain the bias (but not the actual percentage of course). the KT would still be hard to penetrate, the stug relatively easy. the only way to "game" then would be to attack the KT multiple times (and bounce), then attack the new target and penetrate it with a higher percentage. but actually, attacking the other tank right from the beginning would make you do more damage, so gaming the system would not help.
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yes, they are terribly, annoying and badly designed. but the past has shown, that to convince relic to do something fast, you need to abuse it to the point where they cannot do anything else then fix it.
i dont like that, actually i hate that thought myself, but it might be necessary nonetheless |
So what you're saying is let me get this straight, everytime a unit performs an action and it fails at this action next time it performs the action on the same unit it has an increased chance to succeed at the action and this will repeat until it performs the action cause thats what I pretty much said earlier
yes
"Having an increased chance to perform an action everytime it fails, so I can get an increased chance to penetrate everytime I get deflects"
correct
Then you complain about how you hate low health tanks are escaped
i dont hate low health tanks escaping. what i hate is shooting ten times with a pak at such a tank and it driving away, while normally 3 shots would have been enough to kill it but of course retreating tanks will be harder to hit, a moving tank is harder to hit and the tank chasing it will also have crappier accuracy
true
This can be prevented if you flanked that tank and force it into retreating into your unit so that you dont have to move to hit it and get better accuracy when hitting it thus making it be in danger for a longer time
true. and? you have no point?!
one final time: this does NOT change the overall percentage of an action happening (note that stug having a lower hit percentage initally with pseudo rng). most often you would not notice the difference between pseudo RNG and real RNG. just look at the plot! see! its math! everything is there!
please, PLEASE, think 10 more minutes before your next post. and read the wiki article... |
And that RNG should never go, because this is what makes CoH2.
Without it, you can just go play starcraft or any C&C clone instead.
you clearly have zero clue what the pseudo RNG does
it is still RNG, but it takes the last numbers into account. for example:
your stug is shooting at an enemy tank. his chance to hit may be 25% on average. In case of RNG, it will always be 25%. with pseudo RNG, your first shot has a 8.5% hit chance, your second 17%, third 25.5% and so on until you hit the target, then it gets reset. the average chance is still 25%
so basically, the only thing this does is decrease the chance of very unlucky events (10 shots at an enemy low health tank without finishing it off)
Having an increased chance to perform an action everytime it fails, so I can get an increased chance to penetrate everytime I get deflects
But if this is implemented what would be the point of flanking to get rear armour shots in or getting in close for better penetration?
You may be all for AT Guns getting increased pen chance vs tanks at long range, but a tank at long range deserves low chances to be hit or penned it just cant stay there forever
A unit in cover deserves less of a chance to be hit, it can be countered by getting in close, flamethrowers, mortars etc
Most the RNG in this game can be manipulated by the player, if it cant THEN Pseudo RNG would be better
wrong. please read what i wrote above. it does not change the overall chance, flanking is still worth it, units in cover still get a bonus, etc, pp.
sorry, i may be a bit harsh, but both of you dont know what they are talking about. please read this: Link to Virus |
im totally for pseudo rng, if this game wants to be competetive at some point
In short, you want to mitigate on RNG, use specialists against the targets you want to take down.
that is so wrong. imagine a situation, where you can shoot once at a low health tank. regardless of which AT unit you have (pak, panther, shrecks, ...) its hit or miss, so either veretancy ofr oyu, or a "free" tank for the enemy. in such situations RNG plays a critical role, regardless of wether you have an expert unit or unit, because the especialized units themselves rely on RNG too.
Otherwise units like the Panther, or the SU-85 (which sacrificed its rate of fire), are going to be completely suckered out by this deal.
wrong. pseudo RNG changes nothing with the actual units, it just makes the gaussian distribution less broad.
RNG is a big factor in this game, but can be controllable through abilities and positioning although there instances were a player would luck out in a fight and win because of RNG but it tends to be rare and could happen to you as much as it can happen to him, so this sort of change could be useful in certain situations but it isnt necessary
most of the time, especially in infantry fights, one can control RNG pretty good. but in other situations, one cannot. but those are often the most important ones, so pseudo RNG would reaaly help there.
please, know what pseudo rng is before posting here.
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