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Thread: USF Rifle Company Rework20 Jun 2019, 20:37 PM Jump back to quoted post20 Jun 2019, 20:13 PMGI John 412 Ok, that makes more sense. Lol I still think that changing that would change too much of the original doctrine. I think they're a better thematic fit the other way around. Flamethrowers in Urban Assault, rifle grenades in Rifle Company. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: USF Rifle Company Rework20 Jun 2019, 19:48 PM Jump back to quoted post20 Jun 2019, 17:35 PMGI John 412 I think that takes away from the uniqueness of the Urban Assault Commander. Less shared between doctrines is good for commander diversity. I think Vipper was suggesting swapping them over, not having two of the same. Urban Assault gets the Flamethrowers, Rifle Company gets the RE Rifle Grenades. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Echelon Grenades20 Jun 2019, 19:01 PM Jump back to quoted post20 Jun 2019, 10:40 AMKatitof Its easier to run UP to a squad then from it. It takes one click within 20 range of RETs. 1-2PGs/AGs will do the job for ost and OKW can just continue rolling on volks and do the same. And if there is RET spam with nades, LV will completely shut it down. You've literally quoted me saying this isn't about the squad's power, then talked about the squad's power. Once again, I don't care how strong the squad is. What I care about is that they play like a quick-time event at the moment. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Echelon Grenades20 Jun 2019, 10:13 AM Jump back to quoted post19 Jun 2019, 22:49 PMGI John 412 I say leave it as it is for now. In the upcoming tournament AE is running we will see what is OP and what is not. The argument here isn't it being too powerful. In terms of game balance, I think they feel about right. How many times must I repeat this? The problem, which I explain in detail in post #90, is that countering these grenades requires little thought but a large number of player actions. Most of CoH's design is the other way around. Therefore I'd like to see either manual targeting or the grenades to be made faster and undodgeable. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: So when do Riflemen get an upgrade to six men?19 Jun 2019, 14:16 PM Compared to Sections and Penals, Riflemen are the carry squad. They're not as strong as Sections or Penals out of the gate, but they've got excellent veterancy and get double 60 munition weapon upgrades. They're pricey, but that's offset by the USF teching system. If you get two Rifles and tech one tier, you've got three squads for an average of 253.3 MP each. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Echelon Grenades19 Jun 2019, 12:53 PM Jump back to quoted post19 Jun 2019, 12:43 PMSeductiveCardbordBox They're just bad mortars. It is a mortar that lets a player paying attention to mitigate the damage with micro, therefore raising the skill ceiling for the defending player compared to traditional indirect. Like mortars they are useless at any combat besides their barrage. Like mortars they have some utility support - smoke, specifically. While RET are quicker to respond mortars have a better range. This isn't a problem. People complaining that this is unreasonable to counter have it all backwards. It's a mortar analogy that has more counters IF you invest micro into it, rather than being a random dice roll on where an impact detonation shell lands. Is it skill though? There's no thought or strategy that goes into it. It's just APM. I'd genuinely prefer it if it was a baby mortar. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Echelon Grenades19 Jun 2019, 11:37 AM Jump back to quoted post19 Jun 2019, 07:57 AMSander93 When you're facing flamethrowers, you have to micro your units out of cover or they'll take extra damage. Facing RET Riflenades, you have to micro your units to move a bit after you hear the ping. You even have an extra second before detonation and longer range means longer reaction time. I personally don't see how this is really any different from flamethrowers. They're even pretty easy to counter compared to flamers by rushing within 20 range (their minimum firing distance). The difference is parity of input. One of the strongest parts of CoH's design is it's not an APM game: it's much more about taking smart actions than more actions. In most engagements, you analyse the field, put your squads in the right places and wait for the opponent to react. The problem with the RET grenades is they autofire but they're designed to be dodged. Dealing with these things is an APM game. Dodging them is trivial: you just tell the squad to move to the side and you've negated the damage. The problem is you have to keep doing this, whereas all your opponent has to do is position the RET squad and leave them to it. This degrades the experience into an APM game. Their current design relies entirely on overheating micro: using up so much of your opponent's attention dodging all the autofire grenades that they can't focus on other things. Some people might not see anything wrong with this sort of thing, but I'm saddened to see it in a game that's avoided this sort of design in the past and taken steps to remove it where it exists. In my opinion, the simplest solution is to remove the timers: make the grenades explode on impact so you can't dodge them and scale the damage they inflict accordingly. If you can't dodge the grenades, then it turns back into a positioning game: you either have to close within the minimum range or retreat. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Echelon Grenades19 Jun 2019, 00:11 AM Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 23:58 PMSpaceCow It can be easily countered with cqc and even if its "annoying" any good player will micro most engagements anyway. Even if the complains were justified its too late to remove this from the commander. You could easily remove it. CoH 2 has a long history of removing commander abilities for a whole variety of reasons. I think a few adjustments to make it more useful as a garrison clearer rather than just a micro-taxer would be better though. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Echelon Grenades18 Jun 2019, 21:29 PM Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 21:12 PMGI John 412 Honestly I’m a huge fan of US forces getting riflegrenades. Historically the US Army utilized a TON of M7 and M8 riflegrenade launchers for M1 Rifles and M1 Carbines respectively. The idea is neat, it's the implementation I don't like. It doesn't require skill or thought to counter, just constant attention. Mechanics that rely entirely on overloading the opponent's micro in order to be effective are irritating mechanics. If it's meant to be like a mini-mortar, make it like a mini-mortar. Don't make them dodgeable: make them explode in impact and scale their damage accordingly. If it's meant to be like a grenade, make it like a grenade. It's a targeted ability with a cooldown and a more substantial blast. I don't understand what's desirable to anyone about the annoying yet impotent halfway house we have now. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Echelon Grenades18 Jun 2019, 17:29 PM Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 17:25 PMpvtgooner You're right, you're not asking for it to be nerfed, you're asking for it to be REMOVED and replaced with a weapon you don't have to do much to move around. You're asking for the removal of something a lot of people have been really excited for because you have to actually micro. Don't blow smoke up my ass with "a more powerful ability", this is all about your inconvenience, not health of the game. The current design is irritating without being effective. In my book, that's a bad design. Therefore, I've suggested changes to it. I'm also still waiting on an apology for your false accusations, which are a little rich from someone who chooses to hide their own playercard. In: COH2 Balance