If you're running Cons you'll have a second con almost ready to go, then you can just backup til he hits combat.
Result is the same, execution is just a little different to account for cons being cheap and crappy pre-vet and combat engies not having their flamethrower yet.
Regardless, the point was the braindead run Sturmpio at opponent and win through sheer faceblob power thing doesn't apply if your opponent isn't a moron. If you just mindless march your sturm forward it will eventually lose models to attrition and bleed you needlessly.
If you built a building and a con for map control then no, you won't have another unit up. And why shouldn't 10 models accounting for 410mp be a threat to a 300mp unit? Soviet t0 is so trash that out manning and out spending and holding favorable positioning isn't enough to combat a starter unit, you need to have vet and munitions that arnt possible to have yet. In order to beat a single unsupported enemy starter unit... |
@sluzbenik
Blobbing at someone with SturmPios and Volks as early as possible is going to do nothing but get your Sturms focus fired and killed before they do anything if the allied player has a few braincells to rub together.
There is plenty of early nuance to using and fighting against Sturms. Sight Blockers, flanks, even intercepting a new unit coming out of spawn. While on the defensive side you can back up and force him to overextend into a larger force, flank his volks yourself while his sturms are getting in position, or even take an unorthodox approach to the map to bamboozle his early game aggression entirely.
You might prefer the Wehrmacht engagement but saying that OKW early game is brainless blobbing is disingenuous. It's simply different and it's okay to prefer one over the other. In any sense it's important to know how to deal with both regardless of which you prefer.
Its more than possible for sturms to rush across no cover into a con and CE in green cover (that's 240+170=410mp and 10 models) and win that fight. Let alone if the OKW player went for full aggression and no capping allowing for the next okw unit to follow up as quickly as possible. A pair of WFA infantry or WFA infantry in cover will beat them up pretty badly, but let's not pretend that's the only match up there is. |
I think it is balanced. Because pathfinders has two scoped rifles comparing to JLI's one scoped rifle, and pathfinder don't need ammunition for upgrade.
And JLI can infiltrate. Both have pros. 75%health crit could outweigh any cons. That's 20 points of damage, 2 shots need to crit snipe. To deal 60 points of damage. Just stop and think about that for a second 60 points of damage on a snipe. That's 3 shots from a luchs worth of damage, that's more damage than a T70 shot, that's the same damage as a bundled nade does to infantry in green cover. In 1 shot. |
just cause cons lose at max range vs ostruppen while they are in cover, it does not mean they are bad, cause they stomp ostruppen any other way, ostppen are designed to fight in cover out of it they are nothing way worse than IS buff while in cover (the trenches are from doc, the panzer faust is from tech as it comes with bp1, and again ostruppen are doc units)
its like saying that ober lose to rifle man at close range so they need buff
Cons losing to ostroppen doesn't make them bad, no they are bad because:
They can't out number the enemy because they cost the same/almost the same per squad. They can't out fight because they have no weapon upgrades, the aren't more efficient because you have a number of side techs to make them do basic things, they can't even outlast because they have no means of healing on field.
They have incredible vet 3 performance but their vet 1 is a fucking flare mine.
They arnt bad because they lose to a cheaper unit in CO er at long range, they are bad because everything they can do someone else can do better and for cheaper. They are bad because they are not good. At anything. |
JLI are fine, IMO its just their ability to appear out of buildings that makes them borderline OP. Otherwise they are a good long range recon infantry to assist volks
Idk... The models snipe thing is really really strong. It's a massive force multiplier that I would say combined with even a single volks squad makes them monsters, more than say a con squad and sniper or something similar. Against Soviet it's devistating because there is no option but to drop 250mp and fretreat often to REDUCE the effectiveness of JLI.
Maybe delaying their sniper rifle or something could help idk |
Do JLI have panzerfausts? They can be good at killing MGs but for balance reasons they shouldn't have also have a snare or AT ability.
They don't have a snare no, but raks are cheap and one might not even know they are there.... |
like u did i tested the ostpuppen vs cons, if they rush at green cover cons lose (as they should) at yellow cover they win 2 time and lost 3, both at max range in same cover it was up to the last man, at medium range cons won in saem cover 70% of the time and if they rushed 50% while at close cons only lost 1 time
its normal to lose if u rush a unit in green cover, especially if the unit is made to fight in cover, as it has 0.25 moving accuracy, osttuppen only win if they have cover and range advantage, if u want cons to win every engagement with ostrppen then they should cost 120 mp not 200 (so at least 2 ostruppen squad can match cons)
The difference between ostroppen and cons is the same difference between grens and rifles/Tommies. That's a pretty big difference in power... Or should be... |
Comparing to UKF's sappers, USF's 5-man flame thrower squad just comes too early.
Could tie the flame thrower to an officer or officer unlock. Or the 5th man for that matter if the extra model is what makes them too strong. |
Wait, if you want to utilize doctrine-specified unit. Sov can skip T2 smoothly by using lend-lease doctrine.
This saves them 10 fuel which is more than paid for with MP in a commander that really offers quite little. The weapons are great but tank traps takes up an entire slot on its own (the same ability offers trenches as well for Ost) and the light AP mines closest equal would be the OKW ability that allows volks to plant smines and build Bunkers. You literally get 3/5s of a commander in exchange for a good MG. There's a usf commander that 2 slots offers 4 vehicle options and Soviet have 2 slots that offer at most 2/3 of a commander ability.
The Maxim, costs the same as the vickers and the mg42 both of whom are t0 units yet is inferior by a large margin.
Similarily cons are outclassed by everything even remotely near their price point. But then we also have penals who are just bat shit OP right now.
The faction needs a rework where co s are made a proper option as well as maxims and penals instead of 1/3 being an option at any gi en patch but never 2 or all 3 being viable |
cons have much better vet, and they are a doc squad, "axis get free shit" whine as always, again that's cause of doc (same logic could be said for cons that can repair with doc),did u see ostruppen base accuracy ?, what is the superior support asset ?, btw ostppen have base 1,25 base recived accuracy
Cons have better vet but are useless without vet. Cons also require heavy extra investment in order to reach their full potential. The cost to fully kit out cons is about what it costs for brits to increase the durability and dps of their infantry by 25% that is fucking nuts to think about.
Cons are bad because of the aforementioned additional cost but also that outside of vet they lack any means to scale meaning a wipe is irreplaceable. Wipes are bad for other factions as well of course but some of the loss can be made up by throwing munitions at them. If you lose a gren squad you can pay 60 mu and get most of their DPS back meaning they start to vet faster, same with Volks, rifles, RE, sappers, Obers and Tommies. If you lose a con squad you might as write them off because there is nothing you can do to make them even close to a vetted squad, they will lose hard to enemy vetted and armed squads and not deal enough damage to justify their pop cap.
With certain doctrines they are viable, but that makes them the only core unit in the entire game that is only viable if you lock out other choices which is horrible design. |