JLI are supposed to beat penals any day of the week. Penals comes with free svts, but JLI need to pay 45 munis for their "sniper like" rifles.
45mu is sub premium. That's a cheap upgrade. Especially for its impact. While I agree that penals need toned down 300mp as an AI unit should be beating 250mp 45mu in an infiltrating support unit. Paths don't hold up when unsupported... |
Cost effiency? They cost the same as volksgrenadier but count only 4 men in squad
vet max 3 star.
They only a long range option and a little weaker then volks.
You are aware that there is more to cost effeciency than model count right? Cons have MORE models than volks but are widely accepted as trash tier uneffecient troops...
For the same price as volks you get a force multiplier. The ability to outright kill any model who has <60/80hp left. That's nuts for only 250mp and 45mu.
They also have the same durability as panzer grens/Tommies (bot of whom cost more)
Despite the price however you shouldn't be comparing them to volks. Compare them to the 290mp pathfinders or 360mp snipers as they have more in common |
I think I too prefer the idea of weak on infiltration and having to upgrade, even if for free for potency. Additionally imo infiltration units should all be relatively squishy and thus risky. Imo if falls had a weapon upgrade they would be a shining example of infiltration troops. Squishy and expensive but high impact of positioned properly. The only glaring issue is the high DPS out of spawn |
- Manpower cost to 280 MP, G43 upgrade to 60 munitions.
- Moved to CP0, buildable from OKW's headquarters building.
- G43 upgrade gated behind the first set-up truck, like Volks STGs.
I would support this change |
Good at def, bad on assault. But you can comnbine them so easy. Put in a Sniper and you can overrun a hole position. Later a SU85 and even Panther has no chance. (that is good, but simply to easy to do, that is the problem) If there is no Ele etc. you will win because of lack of counters. If Penals would lose their AI ability, they would be fine. And that is no l2p, it is the problem of commander and fraction design.
But now you only need the time and the map-knowledge and the luck that you don't lose all inf by Panzerwerfer. If StuG or Panther can't hunt, they are they most useless units ingame. And if the enemys AT inf also can defend a position, then there is a problem.
So, nerf the Penals, if you don't change the line-up.
A.
- Give Penals same weapon-profile as Volks. Upgrade for better AI weapon or PTRS.
B.
- No Sniper with Penals.
I have stated I agree with the direction of A. Before but there is no reason that 2 squads consisting of 660mp shouldn't be impactful. Soviet forces can't have anything but a PTRS as long as the squad has 6 models. It can't. Too durable. And the PTRS is very vulnerable to pushing, so it needs to have a snare (cons have a snare, guards have a snare and penals have a smare) ID like to see less AI retained (preferably a mutually exclusive AI and AT upgrades) but the design outside that element is sound |
Units with two Piats or two Schrecks become more or less useless versus infantry. Overall one Penals with PTRS and AT-explosive-charge performs better to stop breakthroughs as one PnzGren with Schrecks. The at-gun is good versus light cars, the charge will stop all tanks movements.
Penals are much better than others at defending against armour but much worse at assaulting due to long aim times and low burst damage. It's a trade off. The AT snare won't do shit unless you get close enough for it to do shit. Not to say adjustments don't need made but the balance of it isn't problematic
@Katitof I too would like to hear their thoughts. |
And as I have said multiple times, 221 doesn't belong here and if it was up to me, it wouldn't even exist, only 223, alternatively 221 at the timing of 223 with adjusted costs as by that time, even USF should be able to fend it off by using M20 or M15.
But it does exist and is here so we can't ignore the disbalance it sits in. |
JLIs are way too cost effective, if they are something like 280-290mp Im pretty sure it would be much better balanced. Maybe increase the muni of the sniper requirement to the standard 60 muni if they are still too strong.
I think that the sniper should be upped to 60 regardless. The volks STGs is such a powerful upgrade I think this should be a trade off kind of option instead of a delay kind of option. |
I don't think you know what you're talking about here...
It makes ZERO sense what you just said and whatever point you're trying to make, you're the only one who can see it, you're doing METH, not MATH.
OKW needs a total of 35 fuel to pump 221, they start with 5, that means they need to gather 30 fuel to get 221.
Everything you try to add on top of that is utter nonsense.
Also.... you DO realize you do NOT need to DEPLOY truck to call 221? Just have one on field?
Aight but here's the comparison I'm seeing: to field an M3a1 the Soviet need to gather 5 fuel and the m3a1 allows for transporting troops and outside playing against Helen Keller will beat a 221 outright. No, being able to do a med kit does not offset the extra 25 fuel required and lack of garrison. The 223 is worth its costs. The 221 is not. |
CE are actually a massive 22mp (massive for Soviet anyways) which puts them as more expensive per man than cons and weapon crews. But this isnt about CE. RE at least can be pressed into AT and get that juicy 5th model that let's them at least tie up enemies. Plus they get to stay on the front vs having to retreat into the base so they can build bases or having to use them for repairs. RE are OK being as they are because they arnt really needed for anything else they are cheap bodies. |