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Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback18 Apr 2021, 02:29 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 23:03 PMMr. Someguy Fallschirmjagers. cost a hell of a lot more than grens do and are STILL poorly designed. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Buff for 5 man grens18 Apr 2021, 02:26 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 19:45 PMJilet I'm saying a revised model of this could be made to work and even 5 man grens would be just better than the current iteration of VSL just because they could at least alpha strike at times with their 16 damage rifles. 16 damage for an alpha strike? That's the thing that got deliberately removed off of more expensive tommies isn't it? I'm 160% sure it is. The value of the 5 man is taking your squishy 4 man squad and making is 25% more durable. That is the primary function. If you want firepower to ou take the lmh42 as it's primary function is to offset the squishy. Both upgrades have their uses and neither outright replaces the other this is an example of a good upgrade. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback16 Apr 2021, 17:43 PM Just to throw this out there as we're talking about the stug and su76 durability of the unit itself also plays a role. The su76 is exactly as durable as a light tank. Low armour and low health means that it has less margin for error. The stug on the other hand can bounce a t34 frontally from point blank AND requires a whole extra hit to kill (compared to the su76. Then it also gets more durability with vet. The problem with the su76 is that it's a glass cannon easily punished without any real decent scaling to validate taking that risk. If at t4 the su76 got or could get a durability buff we may see some more usage. But for what more or less equates to a Puma with no turret and more pen but none of the survival traits or flexibility in engagement it will always fall off. Also its vet 3 should bring its damage up to 160, not 140 as it effectively doesn't exist in any game scenario with 20 more damage.... It'll still take 3 shots to kill a flak track, 2to kill a panzer werfer.... It can't even punish LVs for christ sake... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - General Feedback16 Apr 2021, 17:30 PM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 06:59 AMTiger Baron I think the problem is you're imagining the OKW hull down being just a copy paste of the Ost one. While in reality that ability doesn't exist for the OKW, only the animations do, so it's very likely that it's going to be balanced differently. Plus as I've already said in the Ost topic about it fixed gun vehicles like the StuG, Elefant, Stupa and for the OKW the JP4 should have some sort of cloak or something instead due to their limited gun traverse so it's entirely possible to adjust it to a vehicle specifically altho it already has a cloak ability with vet from what I remember. As far as the rest of your concerns about OP combination of abilities, you may feel free to test your theory with the All Units mod where you can hulldown OKW vehicles. I have as well as in the old CoH with the British and it wasn't something that was game breaking again simply because a static position is a great target for artillery. I'm seeing it as a copy and paste of the ost one because there shouldn't be multiple abilities with the same name, same animation on the same units doing different things. It makes things messy and a player shouldn't be required to go off site to find out what each hull down does depending on which units of which faction its applied to. My concern is that we're going to slap abilities within considering anything other than that there are animations already. Things like HEAT in conjunction with a hulled down JP4 for example would be like a lite pak43 that can preserve vet and reposition, even chase. Or a hulled down KT makes its strength (durability and formidable gun) even more profound. The KT is already so slow trading mobility for a damage reduction as needed isn't so much an issue if the pros are great enough. Also cohf holds no weight here as it's a different game. If mobility was all then the emplacement cancer of coh2" never would have been. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback16 Apr 2021, 17:19 PM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 06:33 AMVipper If they are not "squishy" you agree with my point so I am not sure what you want to debate. I have not called the squad as extremely durable by any standards so I am not sure why you make it appear so in your post. I never disagreed with your point, I was giving credence to people saying they are underwhelming You analysis is simply flawed. Paras bring allot more than just an extra entity, they bring Elite carbines/SMG/LMG/Elite bazookas. If it was the extra model that made the difference Ranges who are also 5 entities would not be used. yes this is exactly what I mean. PARAS bring a lot more to the faction than AG bring to theirs. Rangers are OFTEN regarded as underwhelming BECAUSE like AG they don't bring anything exciting. They are not weak, but they are underwhelming and uninteresting One does not get assault guards because of the "superior durability" but because of their superior firepower. And their firepower is superior. Soviet don't lack for firepower. One will get AG Likley for the zooks, as if they want an assault squad they have many options I suggest you use them or test the version that available in live (which is weaker) instead of theory crafting since as you say you have not used them. I'm not theory crafting at all. I'm saying that you can't compare them to a unit from a different faction ad say they are fine to dispel others complaints about them. Their attractiveness doesn't care how USF paras operate, it depends on what they bring to the soviet faction. It's relative to them alone Finally units are balance with what they have to fight and Assault guards can fight axis units just fine. They are probably one of the most cost efficient units. they are equally weighted against the other units the faction has at their disposal and being doctrinal they are being pitted against other soviet elite infantry in regards to attraction. Look at it this way: Both axis factions have panthers. Identical units costing the same. If one was to introduce a doctrinal Panther for both factions that has 4 levels of vet for ost it would be an improvement and Likley be more expensive, but for OKW it would be a worse Panther and Likley be cheaper. How the unit interacts withing the faction is important as it takes factional subtlies into account. A 6 man squad to literally everyone but soviet is impressive, for soviet its standard. Tank with 200 armour for usf is durable, but for okw it's weak. The game balance is diverse and unit efficiency is relative to the faction. With that in consideration I can see why some may feel that AG are underwhelming for the soviet. One size does not fit all and just because something is comparable to something in another faction doesn't mean it fits the bill for a different faction entirely with different stats and units and roles and costs. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The problem with ptrs16 Apr 2021, 00:02 AM Jump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 23:58 PMDerKuhlmann You know, when i face soviet, he just spam penal ptrs and shocktroopers. So you say i cant use light vehicles which is the counter to shocktroopers? That's a lot of manpower... What are you doing with yours? If ost build a sniper. If he's spamming PTRS and for some reason nuking his mobile AI for nothing then he won't be able to chase. Shock troops also do poorly against snipers. MGs also work. Supporting one another incase they smoke. Force off the PTRS then target shocks with LVs. Withoit a replay we cant help properly however. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The problem with ptrs15 Apr 2021, 23:57 PM Light vehicle counter counters light vehicles.... RELIC FIX YOUR DAMN GAME. But for real... You are trading penals AI for AT, in the same way that pgrens trade theirs, only you don't have the bundled nade or capacity to deal 240 damage to a tank in a second from the front... If the enemy went T1 and you see penals, I would advise strongly against trying to YOLO a LV around without any support. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback15 Apr 2021, 23:54 PM Jump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 20:31 PMVipper AG have the same durability as guards (while being cheaper) The slightly better durability than Penal while being slight more expensive They have better durability then conscripts Only shock have better durability and that is because the have to move to range 10 while AG can fight at mid range. They are simply not "squishy, especially compared to other infantry of their type and cost" and they are are as viable against tank as Paras are. Its all relative. A few percent better target size isn't terribly noticeable. They may not be "squishy" but they are not durable by soviet standards. They would be incredibly durable for Ostheer. But they sre not Ostheer squads. They are soviet squads, and by that metric they are not really durable. Paras are tanky, because their base infantry are only 5 models. They have a whole extra man slapped on there and that makes a huge difference. Everything is relative. And an average 6 man squad isn't anything special for soviet REGARDLESS of how great the same 6 man squad would be for any other faction. Again I personally don't have an input on how they feel because I have not used them yet, but I can absolutely see the perspective of why some might feel they are underwhelming as RELATIVE to the soviet, they arnt really anything special. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback15 Apr 2021, 23:28 PM Jump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 22:08 PMVipper It is the least picked commander across most modes. Its an overshadowed commander not necessarily a weak one. One of the main draws of the commander also comes in a commander with arty and Goliaths... Take JLI out of that commander and suddenly scavenge has something great that isn't available elsewhere. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - General Feedback15 Apr 2021, 23:25 PM Jump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 21:45 PMTiger Baron You're worried about a fixed gun vehicle being static? Do you know how much useful a hull downed Elefant is actually or have you used one? Because I have and it's only really useful on extremely choke points and even then it can get artied and flanked. The KT is also slow so if it's caught out of position with it's slow turret speed as well it's just dead, doesn't matter if hull downed or not. The only problem would be the Panther because of it's speed, but as the mod team have done with the delay, if it's again caught out of position and cannot retreat it's dead. So it's a risk and reward thing but I think you're overexaggerating it because you either don't have experience with it or are playing more on the Allied side and think it's going to be OP or something. You are completely missing the ease of use buffs its getting. Any tank can hull itself down. No support or anything. And they can turn it off rapidly if things get squiffy. The JP4 would OUTRANGE an, it's already a great TD. Almost all okw tanks get increased vision with vet, including bonus vision when stationary. All okw armour has a minimum of 230 armour making them some of the most durable tanks in the game BEFORE adding a damage reduction... I'm saying there's more to Consider than "hurr durr it'll be cooleo" I know crazy silly things like "faction design" and "will making an already great tank even better upset balance" Or "what if we combine all things everyone hates about emplacements, make em mobile and let them call in arty" A hulled down KT with spearhead over watching a VP with a JP4 that could in a few seconds fire at an elefant without risk return fire would be bad design Especially when you consider that the tank HASN'T given up its mobility-a press of a button and its mobile again, ready to blitz to safety if it needs to... I'm sayin it's a bad idea shoe honing in abilities that are not considered the repercussions of. A JP4 could set up shot and outrange a 17lb... Think man. Think! In: COH2 Balance