They are tightly interweaved, hard not to confuse it and soviets are dictionary example of that.
There can be no diversity if alternative options are not viable.
imo:
No they are not, a faction can be perfectly balance and able to use only one unit of each type.
That faction would be balanced but there would be no diversity.
No, the faction isn't up, we've seen that over and over on recent tournaments, its literally these 3 units that got addressed now that are. If you believe there is anything else that's weak or cost inefficient, its more likely then not that an incorrect use is the reason for that belief, like for example using grens without HMG or sniper support.
The faction just received major buffs, its balance issue, Ostwind change is simply also a diversity change.
Soviets are facing the exact same issues - a limited number of units was overnerfed/non scaling to the point where they became irrelevant - just because you can click to build them doesn't make them viable choice and cons are prime example here.
No they do not, they have a plethora of option more than any most other factions.
Except, ost also got countless buffs to stand up and allies got also countless nerfs for ost sake, limiting rifle LMGs to 1, nerf of Bren guns, centaur nerfs, AEC nerfs and many, many more for all 3 allied factions.
Ost isn't up, 3 units are.
Soviets aren't up or just "spamming OP unit", 2 units were nerfed to irrelevance, causing 3rd to be mandatory cruch that holds faction together on a duct tape.
Yes they Ostheer are UP.
Which is not going to happen.
Coming from the person that predicted that Calliope and Pershing are not going to be introduced to game I tend not to take your predictions seriously.
If you have a flat tire, you fix flat tire, not poke holes in all remaining ones and drive into a tree.
I have explained to this once more but it seems that I have to repeat it:
Ostheer is the benchmark, other faction are balanced according them.
Have nice day. |
Ah yes, the foolproof approach
Finally make Maxims and Conscripts viable. And because we all know the game is improved(tm) when every faction has only one acceptable meta build available, immediately nerf the other viable options. One viable meta is the way!
Nothing creates variety like nerfing units that are fine to 'compensate' for units that aren't doing what they need to. That's why the current commander patch buffed the ostwind and Pgrens and also immediately nerfed the PaK 40 and MG-42.
You are confusing balance and diversity.
The changes to Ostheer are there because the faction is UP and they aim at fixing balance issues, not diversity issues. Soviet are facing diversity issues not balance issues.
After countless buff to allied units to counter OKW, Ostheer where simply left UP and now they receiving a buff.
Imo it would be much better approach if all faction where nerf to Ostheer levels.
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Yea, Ourah fits way more in the penal Squad, but Molotov looks more like a Conscript thing, cheap infantry using "cheap" grenade.
Imo anti-garrison weapon should not be available to mainline infatry, but to specialized ones. (goes to V.G also).
That creates added utility for these squads. |
If it's in line with the Soviet variant then I'm fine with it.
You also mention something about the Urban Assault commander being playable somewhere, can you further clarify on that?
My suggestion would be the following:
As vet 1 ability Soviet paras get retreat to beacon instead of the AI strafe (with no need to unlock at T4).
As an ability Ostheer can retreat to Bunker but only 1 squad at the time. Then the ability goes on global CD.
That imo would bring them inline while keeping them unique.
The patch allows Ostheer to choose Urban assault commander, as simply as that.\
(With the changes to flamers As. PG are simply broken  ) |
I also think that Widerstreit's radio bunker looks excellent and he also did a brilliant job with his repair bunker for the commander revamp patch but sadly it was too late and they didn't accept it.
I also again want to mention on how it could have a Forward Retreat Point to justify it's costs and also be in line with the Soviet Airborne providing the same function.
I am against FRP for both soviet and Ostheer. On the other hand the ability to retreat to FRT 1 squad at time is interesting.
The ability is already in game in the urban assault commander, only thing one has to do is make have a global cool-down of restrict it to specific units like the Soviet paratroopers. |
Don't think conscripts need any "DPS" buff. Their veterancy 1 is kinda bad. I think they have bad synergy with their kit. They can build large and heavy cover but they don't have any benefits from it, even the description of Conscripts says "good in cover". I would prefer as vet 1 some kinda buff in cover. They can't win engagements in long range, but they are bad in closing in as well. The Molotov throws so Slow and has such a small range that the majority of times you will get pin or loses models before you can try to do something. You have to tech for both molotov and AT nades which will delay tech or delay more conscripts. The problem isn't the cost, but the time you have to spend teching them while with Penals you get instant Satchel and no need to tech to get AT satchel. I think its not the performance, but the quality of life. It's annoying, at least, to play a Conscript build.
The problem with such a vet ability would be that it would contradict with ourah.
My suggestion has been:
Replace molotov with a frag grenade
Increase AT grenade range
Remove ourah
Reduce size to 1
Vet ability now is "hit the ground" bonuses and penalties improve with veterancy.
These changes solidify Conscripts as defensive infatry capable of holding the line.
Penal
cost to 200-240
now have:
ourah
molotov
These changes solidify Penal as cheap aggressive infatry.
Now there is room for Soviet "combined arms" using 2 stock infatry. |
Here's a chart that compares total dps of grenadiers, G43 grenadiers, conscripts and SVT conscripts.
The SVT upgrade seems to buff the dps of cons at all ranges, most noticably at long range, making it more comparable to the 5 men grenadier upgrade. I'd say it's definitely worth it.
I'll make a chart that compares SVT cons, LMG grens, G43 grens and 5 men grens next, for whose interested.
Mind the following:
- Grenadiers get a better accuracy bonus with vet, while conscripts get a better RA bonus with vet.
- The data comes from coh2.org and was taken at intervals of 5 range.
- The G43 upgrade also includes interrogation and better moving dps.
Great work, thanks for taking the time to providing the info.
The charts make it quite clear that the weapon upgrade is not "bad" or even bellow average.
Do they even have SVT weapons for all infatry squads available or are there be some squad holding invisible weapons? |
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Imo observation bunker, soviet FRP and 223 should come all in line and the mini map info should be a timed ability and not always on.
Flares could also see MU cost reduction since OKW/UKF flares are more cost efficient. |
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My point here is that if you looking to fix diversity issues and not balance issues buffing units is not the answer.
What is needed is combination of slight buffs slight nerfs and/or adding utility. |
T-70 is just another part of the band-aid keeping the faction together at this point but it was nerfed too with the vision while Flame HF only got veterancy nerfs that hardly affected the Flamer itself. And I remember reading/hearing that Talisman, the winner of the tourney back when himself said that only Flamer HF is overperforming, rest is fairgame.. Flame HF is still a menace and a wipemachine. And 222 exists. all soviets have is a sad, lonely t70 at almost the same fuel cost of a t-34.
FHT is op but that is totally irrelevant.
If you buff conscripts and maxims their will be no need for a band aid anymore. |
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