I consider introducing aritificial limits on unit count as a bad taste. It is a failure on design side.
There should be natural reasons not to have duplicate unit types and not to have multiple squishy units as a sniper. And in sniper case I think reasons are present in game.
Sniper is a unit that requires a lot of babysitting, screening and support. If player invested 720 MP into sniper units, he should not have enough forces for screening against LV and will generally be overwhelmed by enemy infantry force unless his opponent has failed to adapt and continued building team weapons.
Therefore in my opinion introducing limit on snipers is not needed and it is probably just a L2P issue.
I also think it was a mistake to make Soviet sniper 1 man.
It goes against CoH series cornerstones - unit preservation and veterancy.
They had to go completely opposite and make all snipers 82 hp 2-man squads, increase recieved accuracy and increase reinforcement cost AND TIME.
This way countersniping would be still viable, but recieving side won't instantly lose their MP investment together with accumulated veterancy.
Forcing sniper away with LV and killing 1 model would be a good result too.
I wonder, why we got rid of precision shots, demo charges, restricted mines to 2 model kill max in order to reduce squad wipes, but then did U-turn and decided that wiping through countersniping is ok.
Someone didn't learned CoH1 lesson.
I respectfully disagree with at least some of your points (surprisingly I know
Yes snipers need babysitting at the time when light vehicles reign supreme, but outside that timeslot they are actually somewhat safe and take a lot of effort, stealth and planning for the opponent to kill. Conversely, going double sniper and a-moving them around in groups does not really take much more effort than moving one sniper but has twice the impact and will force 4-man squads to immediately retreat or be wiped.
I really see no point of making the snipers two man again as that would make them even less vulnerable to one of their best counters, the counter-snipe, and mean that they would be an even more low effort to maintain for most of the match.
Can I ask for a one Churchill limit?
Nope, you can stay on topic if you please
"I hear and obey. Job's done. Zug zug."
Some wisdom from the Panzer of the lake.
Pot calls kettle black. If you constantly say stupid things in order to make fun of things you consider stupid, it doesn't take long enough for others to perceive you in the same way.
Stay on topic before other mods have to step up in this thread again.
Thank you oh wise lake Panzer!
Don't like that one either? I always have more.
Setup Time: Give them a setup time like the Flak HT. Gotta brace that sniper rifle!
That'd give infantry some solid counterplay: if you're chasing a sniper, it can't shoot back at you without letting you catch up with it. Futhermore, based on HMGs, I'm fairly sure the sniper won't reload unless set up.
Combine this with a +5 boost to sight and range so they can still fight spotted MGs without having to do the shoot-jump-back thing. Y'know, what they're actually for.
Now that's a pretty interesting idea!
But you'll more reliably get a payoff for that dive, rather than the frustration of the sniper getting lucky and your M20 not securing the kill.
Another, much more straightforward solution is to ram their received accuracy through the roof so just about every shot fired at them hits. No more sticking them behind green cover or in buildings: if they take fire, they get hurt.
That means a light vehicle dive will almost always work, as will infantry flanks.
I hear what you're saying, but it kind of sounds like an overcomplicated way to achieve the same goal if you know what I mean
throwing their recieved accuracy through the roof, would not play in favor of skilled players using them correct, but rather just make them way more vulnerable in ways that are outside a players control and it also seems counterintuitive that they should not benefit from buildings, as that would be the most likely place for a sniper to set up. If anything they should get their range and abilities severely nerfed when not in a building (that might actually be an interesting idea to brainstorm).
Could anyone who just came in here to flame and slag of each others ranks please jump over to the discussion forum on steam which seem to have been made for this very purpose? Otherwise I'll have to ask the moderaters nicely to go in hard on invising anything that is not on topic.
Snipers are like Raketenwerfers, they're both frustrating to use and frustrating to play against.
The reason for this? They're a 1 man squad. If your dive doesn't work, you get nothing, and thanks to accuracy mechanics its very random if it does.
As a result, the countersniper is usually the play, but this is entirely skill-based: if they're better with snipers than you, expect to lose 360 MP for nothing.
We won't see total Snipers to Pathfinders reworks at this point, but there's another solution we might just get past the Relicdar.
Make all snipers 2-man.
Make them like the Soviet ones: low health on the models (or high received accuracy), but there are two.
This means an attack on a sniper has a much better chance of killing one model and inflict its reinforcement cost on the enemy, but unlikely to get a full wipe.
Then you give the 360 MP 2-man sniper squad a reinforcement cost of 150 MP.
If the enemy is consistently pulling off dives, that sniper is going to bleed you out right back.
I respectfully disagree that this as a good solution to sniper spamming as two sniper units grouped together will still get the insta wipe on the opponents sniper and force you to chase deep with light vehicles. The soviet two-man squad was removed with good reason and increasing the reinforcement cost with another 60 mp is not something I think will get to the bottom of the problem.
Good to have you back buddy. I might have time to do a review this week depending on how crazy it gets at work.
Other than that you might benefit from reading up on this guide I made, which should give some pretty good and general insights that are still relevant
You are right, but Tiger II is exception, which was even moved to call-in section (with some UI issues). Also, it has restriction for other reason - it is super heavy, and like other super heavies limited to one.
Yes you are not wrong. But I think my argument about snipers is still warrented, although I think other people have also put some pretty good ideas into play about making it more of a recon unit.
I could also see a situation where the sniper would not be able to autofire when you were attack moving it around, and rather you had to actively target a unit for it to fire. Something like the hold fire just being permanently activated. This would make them a lot more micro intensive, but probably also warrant a drop in the price.
Core teching is something, that was designed for faction to be used in unlimited numbers. I agree about limits for doctrine units, but basic stuff (snipers too) should be limited only by popcap.
I agree that it's not something that should be overdone, but technically non doctrinal limit allready applies to another unit - The KT.
And yes, I know that's an entirely different ball park, but I do feel like some things reward lazy play that let's you punch above your weight without much effort.
But overall I see the point that this argument could be made in many instances.
Going for multiple snipers is annoying to face, but its 720mp into two small fragile units with limited versatility.
I think going for 2 snipers in this patch is actually a very bad idea with all the potent light vehicles and camo units in the game currently.
I think a lot of players get overly focused on the snipers and a desire to kill them outright.
I hate to say this and its very map dependent of course, but, i think this problem can be solved with some changes in play.
You are no doubt completely right that this is a L2P issue and that it can be countered and beaten (and I often do).
However, my point is that much like old (and to some extend still existing) Sim City strategy could be countered, playing against it is a drag, requires somewhat low effort to pull off and generally reduce the enjoyment of playing the game.
I'm all for diverse opening and strategies and don't want to tie people down into a bottleneck strategies, but I honestly don't feel like the game would lose some truly enjoyable plays if more was done to weed out these "troll strategies".