I think that brace should be removed and instead emplacements should just be tougher to compensate. It feels so gamey to have an 'Oh no you don't' button. It's also really annoying to have to always attack an emplacement with a disproportionately large force because the opponent might be paying attention and therefore one seriously hard alpha-strike (enough to destroy say an IS2 in a matter of moments) just isn't enough. Was that intentional on Relic's part? Because losing an emplacement hurts so much to have a hope the enemy must be willing to risk an army to destroy it.
Frankly considering how reliable indirect fire is in CoH 2 compared to the supremely devastating, on direct hit, but ultimately unreliable performance of CoH 1 artillery why re-create a faction with expensive emplacements in the first place? Brace structure just simply isn't a good enough way to reconcile this problem. Without it a defensive UKF play is untenable and with it emplacements have demi-god mode on standby. This only really pertains to 1v1s however.
In 2v2 and above there is the issue that one way to easily OHK an allied team containing a UKF is to double/triple/quadruple an emplacement/simcity suddenly which knocks them well out of the running for a long time. Do this to one turtle shell after the other with overwhelming force or indirect fire saturation and knock each Brit out of the running early. Demi-god mode or not 4+ mortars/ISGs focus firing an emplacement or over 10+ squads (or some combination of both). Because losing an emplacement is so punishing the axis can exploit that inherent design flaw of a defensively played Brit without much skill or inherent risk. As they are not pressuring you (because the emplacement ate their income and they have to defend it in force or lose) preparing this kind of Omega-strike (because unlike an Alpha-strike it's the end instead of the beginning) in secret is easy. And of course if they don't defend it properly then just rock up and blow it up with whatever you have to spare.
I don't know how to fix the second problem if I'm going to be honest. Make them much worse but a lot cheaper to compensate? Or go the CoH 1 route and completely neuter the UKFs offensive options so that turtling is the only effective strategy remaining and make their emplacements really really tough to destroy?
As for OKW trucks... They could just bring back the one per-sector limit that they had before which prevented Sim City strategies at the game mechanics level. After all OKW is technically supposed to be the most aggressive faction based around the Battle of Bulge, break through then bite, hold and hopefully do enough damage for the win and not a Call of Duty Proskillzzzz playa (aka. pitch up tent and camp to victory). Besides, it's rather easy to take out a far forward Flaktrack with an early T-34/76. The main reason for shoving the T-34 up to Soviet T4 and locking it behind T3 was to stop Soviets from rolling over OKW players who were either somehow allergic to or just awful with (i.e. inexplicably expecting it to perform on par with the Pak 40 and moaning on the forums when it doesn't) the Raketenwerfer. Not to mention the fact the Schwerer Panzer HQ is not cheap and requires a truck which spawns if and when it feels like it to build *i.e. never when you need it to*.
+1 |
K so your post is about brits emplacement beeing equal or more expensive than okw trucks and cost you easily the game as soon as you loose it. ( Keep in mind, I started my post with "if you compare") or maybe you didnt read my post carefully?
Oh and btw I dont think heavy artillery or off maps counters brit emplacement, to be honest i think it's the other way around (200muns for stuka Diva? Let me brace it and completly deny your artillery)
look at the front page what i typed and tell me what this thread is about.
yes emplacements are like OKW base trucks use them more often and tell me when you lose the emplacement how it affacted you in the long run
also Brace exists as you said to counter those i wipe abilitys ofc this doesnt make them immune to damage so you can charge there with your troops OR maybe fire at them again since brace has a cooldown |
How can you compare emplacements to okw trucks? If okw places his expensive T3 building near the front he runs the risk to lose it (and canceling every unit which is in Production at that moment) and wont be able to rebuild it for 2mins (?)(not calculating the time to drive the Truck to a place and set it up again) It has a clear drawback and to lose a T3 as okw can cost you easily the game. Meanwhile if you lose your emplacement as brit it's not a harsh Set back, more like a unit wipe. Thats a HUGE difference in my opinion.
didnt you read what i said?? emplacements COST you the game,emplacements arent CHEAP so please next time try to read what i said |
Emplacements are dumb. They should not have been part of the design of the Brits at all.
Making emplacements easier to decrew is stupid.
If I fire a smoke barrage on a Bofors, send up a flamer pio to decrew the bofors, then recrew it with my pio, I get a bofors and retain my pio squad.
GG wp
"simcity" is just a term. If you want a definition go to urban dictionary.
proper terminology would be something like a "defensive line" or "defensive position". Realistically, any faction can create such a thing, although they look different because of the tools and resources each faction has at their disposal in order to create such a defensive line.
if you managed to decrew te thing then you deserve to use it.
also maybe the brit player said "i will booby trap the thing"
there are many things you can do,ofc this doesnt mean emplacements will be decrewable so easily.
|
Sorry then you don't know what sim city is...
This is coh2. Not coh1. Different game, different time, different fourms. Don't know why you brought that one up. But if you say so, I remember coh1. British being a fail.
As I stated. Only one truck has a weapon on it. So you trying to compare all the british emplacements to the OKW trucks are irrelevant. It's silly at best. And yes of course it's going to create an economy strain. Otherwise you'll have a better sim city then the actual sim city game itself
"simcity"
look i dont want to say it but OKW has a building that counters everything but heavy tanks AND also have buildings that repair/heal alone they also need alot of shells to be killed and you defend it?
but when it comes to emplacements of the British we have simcity problems??
look simcity or what ever is this thing you talk about has a clear weakness HEAVY ARTILLERY or for OKW OFF-MAP CALLINS,and dont worry emplacements cant avoid any of the those counters cause they are immobile AND have a large hitbox so you get to hit them with more accuracy.
|
Emplacements should have never been put in the game imo, they are sim city pushing units. And they are NOT OFFENSIVE weapons, they are defensive. They force OH commander slot and choice, and if you allow 2 or 3 volks to walk up and throw their nades then it's poor planning.
a few games as British with current patch will change your mind
"NOT OFFENCIVE"??
Defencive(not very close to the front lines nor too far either) which will result in little use
Offencive(near the front lines)which results in alot of use BUT also the quick destruction of the emplacement
you understand now why people dont bother with the defencive thing much since you wont use them much |
There are a few things that bug me about emplacements - but I'm not entirely sure it's a problem with the emplacements themselves. My problem is that their counters are too effective, and the problem largely lies with the mortar pit.
Both of the other emplacements are good, but not necessary. Without a mortar pit you have no true indirect fire unless you get a sexton, and even then you don't have indirect fire. Once the ISG counters the mortar pit, it also rules out any use of the other emplacements along with causing significant infantry bleed and trouble for weapons teams. The mortar pit simply doesn't stand a chance in indirect fire fights since it can't move and is large enough that it can't be missed either.
the problem with those hard counters is how good they are versus the british overall(flames are anti cover weapons) same thing with mortars.
they arent AT-guns where no armor means no use BUT rather the opposite(they WILL remain useful vs the entire faction)
|
I think they're pretty fine, after using them a bunch with the nerfed fire damage.
I wouldn't change a thing. Cost wise they are very cost effective and if you made them any easier to keep alive then they would be unkillable in the hands of a good player. The 17lber in particular is an extremely cost effective counter to vehicles. (2 shots panzer iv, 4 shots tiger)
If the emplacements get overrun, brit can either brace for a few seconds to muster a defense or lose them very quickly, as it should be. You still have to defend your emplacements with other units.
If the AXIS player ignores an emplacement he gets destroyed for sure BUT not many people are THAT stupid
Emplacements can be placed in 2 ways
Defencive(not very close to the front lines nor too far either) which will result in little use
Offencive(near the front lines)which results in alot of use BUT also the quick destruction of the emplacement
so either way you place it safe and dont use the damn thing much or place it where you need it and lose it fast,in other words not worth the cost.
brace wont be used to keep the emplacement alive until you gather your force to take it back BUT to save it from wipe abilitys i didnt even mention(apart from wipe flames)
Also flames while they got nerfed they do extra damage to emplacements which is ridiculous,so unless we reduce that extra damage emplacements,flames are still too strong vs emplacements. |
I think we can all agree it’s time we talk about the current state of the emplacements and why they need buffs and/or tweaks.
Emplacements are a major part of the British army, mostly used as defensive tools but also really effective as offensive tools but have some really huge problems.
Emplacements are expensive to the point where it can lose you the game if you lose one (more on that later), for that alone emplacements aren’t really encouraged to be offensive or used at all, another problem is their durability is rather shit dying too fast to flamers and having a large hit box which in turn means it will take damage a lot more than a regular team weapon squad, add that you can attack emplacements with AT guns and you start to see problems so let’s talk about the problems.
1. Cost
Apart from the bofors the mortar pit and the 17 pounder cost a lot of resources, is that a problem you may ask well yes it is, you see once your emplacements reaches zero health you lose it completely, you cannot salvage it or recrew it to take it back, once you lose the emplacement its gone unlike team weapon which you can take back and use them again.
This also punishes aggressive use of the emplacements (which is bad), also since emplacements cost a lot this leaves the British player with little to no resources to do anything to defend the emplacements.
2. Flame Damage
It’s time we talk about flame damage on emplacements and their role vs them.
K I get it they are meant to be an anti-garrison/cover weapon BUT why do they annihilate emplacements and not decrew them??? I mean really it makes more sense to decrew emplacements with such damage not outright wipe them, and we are talking about expensive units being outright destroyed by flame weapons/nades,I am not saying flame weapons should not do damage, I am saying they should not do THAT kind of damage and what’s with this extra bonus damage flamers do to emplacements anyways aren’t they effective enough? We should really either reduce their damage OR at least make them decrew emplacements NOT wipe them.
3. Hit Box/Size
To some this might not be huge BUT to many British players this is huge problem, this makes emplacement placing hard and in many cases forces a British player to avoid their use it also makes them a rather easy target to hit.
What can we do about them?
Well there are solutions and paths we can take to make emplacements viable and fun to play with and against
1. Emplacements should be very durable BUT the crew that operates them should take quite a bit of damage and get decrewed, this will help solve the price problem abit and problem with flamers BUT will not solve problem 3 much (you invest a lot to them but should someone attack you, you won’t lose the emplacement outright and should you take back ground you can save the emplacement and won’t lose it completely)
2. Make emplacements smaller this fixes problem 3 and in a way problem 1 BUT we don’t solve problem 2 at all (slightly harder to hit but also able to place emplacements in more places)
3. Make emplacements cheaper, this solves both problem 1 and 2 BUT doesn’t solve problem 3 at all (emplacements stay the same it they are cheaper which means you will be able to bring them sooner and be able to replace them should someone take them out)
4. Give upgrades to the British that support emplacement use (apart from the royal engineer self-repair ability and anvil heavy engineer upgrade) this will leave emplacements mostly untouched BUT can solve issue 2 and 1 and maybe even 3(ideas needed)
If something better comes to your mind please post it, it will help a lot solve this emplacement issue British are having AND allow us to remove power from other units.
|
Vet bonuses.
KV-1 vet bonuses are exactly the same as it was a medium tank.
Meanwhile panther gets extra armor and hp. Won't compare to churchill, because its bonuses are quite peculiar and suitable in the context of the unit.
Survivability oriented vet for KV based on durability instead of mobility would go a long way.
right or we could buff its HP/Armor
the only thing that should be changed with vet should be this stupid capture mode |