It still provides a speed increase. A panther with its fast stock speed, amazing armor, and above average hp is undeniably more survivable than any p4. Especially if both are at vet 2.
The tiger is good, but its slow and much more expensive than a panther. The lefh has a role, but it can't tank damage for the rest of your units.
Its totally up to you whether or not you think panthers and brumbars are good. However, you are in the minority in this community if you think that the panther has no useful role.
The question is not if the panther has use. it still has use the question is if im willing to spend a lot of fuel and mp getting one while their are better alternatives. Then answer of course is no. unless tier 4 cost gets drastically reduced i see no use getting tier 4 when better options are available. |
I didn't know OKW has a Stug now. And if you get a Puma in between you won't be able to "rush" a P4 out. Nevertheless, a Zis / Su76 can deal with both.
It's a matter of combined arms for all factions now, which is certainly good.
Well thank you for the information captain obvious. i humoured you with an an answer because so far i was not talking about the okw at all and you suddenly brought the okw up for no reason. Now get lost mate . |
Zis, Su76?
You can get both wayyyy before OKW P4 hits the field.
Yes but the okw can rely on the puma to deal with any early t-70's . as for the su76 the stug flat out curb stomps it unless it can use its longer range to its advantage.
It's not really a risk. Soviet T3 offers everything you need:
M5 for AI, T-70 for AI (and against other light vehicles) and SU-76 for AT and light artillery support.
Its a well balanced package no doubt but ost tier 3 is still stronger. get an ostwind out to deal with the m5/t70 first and once he follows with a su76 nail him with the stugs. also if you are really desperate 2 222 can also effective fight t70's
Panther is faster than any medium tank, while also having blitz. Will consider this a brainfart.
the blitz on both the panther and tiger got nerfed into the ground providing only a small speed increase.
A panther is first of all not a true hevy. It is substantially cheaper, whilst retaining the advantages of speed and high armor. A better comparison would be a panther to 3-4 t34s. A panther works in tandem with support units. It tanks damage, whilst supporting units dish out damage. The stugs on the other hand, require meatshields. They are dps, not true armor.
2 problems with this logic. your not going to have enough resources getting both panthers and supportive units unless you mean paks or shreks. which are rather frail and unsuitable for offensive actions. high dps can be just as great a defensive tools. high damage means death stuff , death stuff means no need for defence. if you need a breakthrough unit you will not find it in tier 4 but in the tiger or the new and improved lefh. |
Allies get more map control --> faster tanks. T70 is the best light tank before the luchs (Stuart is shit), which only has a gap if the allied player goes for call-ins.
1st: Luchs (for a faction that will be rekt by having no map control)
2nd: T70
3rd: M5
4th: Ost has no light vehicle
Tested rushing out T70s..they rekt everything, PAK isn't a solid counter because of the recon mode/self-repair and being a defensive weapon it only provides safety for 2/5 of the map. Add some Quad into the mix and you got a nice grind squad.
Sidenote: T34s + 152mm gonna be the new-meta.
And then the p4 comes out and rek the soviets because they have no tank to counter your p4. heavy tier 3 investment is a very heavy risk for the soviets. |
P4 which gets penetrated 100% of the time vs Panther which gets penetrated 62% of the time.
P4 is also slower then panther and takes 1 shot less from any AT that isn't Jackson to be killed.
Yep, no difference here at all, definitely P4 seems better at surviving here.
62 % is a lot for an unit that is expected to win fights because of its durability. and hvap rounds will laugh at the panther armour. also blitz of the p4 is better. But the most important part is that p4 does 35% more damage. and death things cannot kill you. against units like the jackson glass cannons perform much better then units like the panther.
i could also have chosen the stug to be my example. and a single stug (especially with twp) is a way better option then the panther.
That is alex level of contradiction.
what is actually?
Also, panther isn't exactly supposed to slug it out with IS-2. Its faster and have better turret rotation for a reason you know.
Obviously if you're a failure and don't micro multiple weaker units are better then single strong one.
And very low dps making it a terrible flanker. not to mention their is much more risk involved with flanking then with direct engagements . you can run into mines infantry with at nades or supportive at guns. |
Zyllen so what your saying is that tier 4 is a double edged sword that gives alternate options to highly skilled players?
Unless you are on a map where stugs do not perform tier 4 is a viable option . but the tiger would be an better option still. Their is no point using tier 4 unless you have no tiger doctrine.
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You may not like t4, but that doesn't make it terrible. It gives you options no regular faction has. There is a distinction that needs to be made.
It gives options but they are inferior to tier 3. so why get tier 4?
Ostheer T4 gives you access to singular, powerful, specialised units (except lolwerfer). These units are expensive, but are easily the heaviest units that can be used nondoctrinally. The panther is also the most heavily armored unit in the game, bar the KT and IS2.
Heavy means nothing to me. with the usf already having a TD that easily bypasses armour if i had to choose between the p4 or the panther i would choose the p4 to engage the jackson. Also i know the alpha and the last unit i would ever make against the brits is the panther.
Also i would say that medium armour is better at surviving things because if they get into a sticky situation you use blitz and gtfo.
Better units require more tech costs. This is why the KT requires more tech than the panther, and why the tech system exists in the first place.
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They are not better units. i will give another example. panther vs is2 is a clear win for the is2 while 2 stugs will beat the shit out of an is2.
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Many ost players, especially the fanboy group is completely blind on the fact that ost T4 is league ahead other armies top tier and they need doctrinal support to keep up with it, this is why cost to get to T4 is higher and units there cost more-you're paying premium cost for superior units that you do NOT need or have to get as T3 armor is able to fight every single allied vehicle.
I dont agree with this. I would rate usf and okw tier 3 higher then ost tier 4. and you know this also applies to the brits. in fact i rate tier 3 ost also higher.
At this point their is no reason to go tier 4 at all. it only offers alternatives and no clear upgrades to tier 3. Thats why it should not be expensive to go to tier 4.
Their T4 is a bonus, not mandatory.
Its neither a bonus or luxury at the moment but a noob trap. you go tier 4 and your loss rates will go up. not actually what i call balance. |
The 251 change is good, 222 still cant help countering light tanks.
Ost still needs alot work to do. Light tanks are coming,soviet has T70 SU76 and M5,USF has Stuart,OKW has Puma and Luchs,while ost has poor 222 which can be 2 shots by M5+Quad.
Yeah ost has teller mines,pak 40,and schrecks, but soviet has zis3,Guards, and mines too. So why ost must choose defending units? Is that the purpose of this new patch???Relic said they wanna increase the number of viable strategies...lol
Then we always see ost goes to schrecks and pak 40 ,yes this is what relic want players to do.
I dont think you realise how powerful this buff is. for a meagre 40 fuel investment can basically handle any vehicle the allies throw at them. i dare say that the standard lt + m20 follow up has completely lost its edge against in the early ost vs usf matchup.
and while the 222 will not flatout counter t70 it greatly reduces its impact. The t70 can no longer go on a rampage . if a 222 gets in the rear it can take out a t70 and its a guaranteed kill if their are 2 222's. |
I didn't think that the changes to the Ost teching were too harsh, but Relic just released a new update to the patch that will address a lot of concerns.
Enjoy:
http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=188333#post188333
Well i didn't see that one coming. the 222 is now actually worth it. also a nerf to the guard ai |
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