Why are you saying "just 4" like that's a tiny difference? Its not a massive difference, but there probably shouldn't be
Pushing the pop cap up to 19 still feels like an overnerf. It isn't the end of the world though, and the patch as a whole seems pretty good. |
Who said that decision was based on one game and a lot of complaining by 2-3 posters? You literally quoted me saying that that one match did not prove anything.
I think arguably the cheer amount of hitpoints that the Churchill has, and the amount of counters it forces, makes it worth 19 popcap. I think it's comparable to four popcap less than a King Tiger. Popcap is not a universal measure anyway, it can be tailor made to fit certain units within certain armies.
I should have been more specific. Yes, I did see the part where you said that you didn't put too much stock in the one game but that one game was a large part of the reason why so many posts have been put up on this thread.
I don't play UKF a lot, but when I do, I usually get 1-2 Churchills. That extra pop cap is going to make a difference and will result in one less section or engineer squad. It's a lot bigger nerf than some people are thinking. When the Panther's pop cap was increased, it made a noticeable difference in the number of them that I could use and still have a good unit composition. |
One match in which the Ostheer player did not produce the adequate counters (no snares or Tellers to slow them down, nothing to spot for the StuGs to use their range advantage, not getting at least one Panther to tank the damage for the StuGs, not using Pak 40s for their stun rounds) doesn't really prove anything.
That said, it will very likely receive a very minor price increase and one additional popcap (up to 19) for the final patch to better match its "performance" (mostly having 1400 hitpoints and decent armor). I personally think Churchills are only a problem when 2-3 of them are deployed simultaneously.
Instead of Churchills being used tactically as a damage sponge for other units, at the moment they are mostly just being spammed on masse to overwelm the enemy with their sheer number of hitpoints alone, so hopefully the higher popcap will make it very hard to build 3 of them and still have anything of an army left around them. Without support, they should be easier to counter.
So based on one game and a lot of complaining by 2-3 posters, the balance team is going to push the standard Churchill's pop-cap to more than a Panther and just four less than a KT? Do you really think the Churchill is comparable to a KT? |
Ive seen it used by better players than I to good effect in 1v1s, since the shells can make short work of armor with a lucky hit, but it all comes down to RNGesus.
Personally I don't think it should be changed much though; risk is too high it'd somehow get nerfed overall in the process of making it more 'consistent', and its an expensive enough ability that functions more as a high stakes dice roll than a dedicated damage dealer.
It happens once in awhile - even I had it work once back when OKW sim city was strong. I picked armor company early for some stupid reason and didn't have a counter to LEIG's/Schwerer. I was down something like 480 to 19 when I hit the Schwerer. One shell helped finish it and another hit a P4 that was retreating and finished it. I ended up winning. However, few people stack their trucks like that now and most of the time it just works as a very expensive area of denial tool.
I tried it in a comp-stomp today. It has around 8-9 shells and they are about 7 seconds apart. I'd gladly give up a couple for having one hit at the center. Either that or consider lowering the price as the long wait for the first shell pretty much guarantees that anything mobile will not be caught in the circle when the first shell hits. Spending 250 munis for a 1 minute area denial doesn't seem like a good deal. |
It does but has less instagibbing and a lot more RNG, plus big spacing between shots fired.
The time delay means this ability rarely hits any units. I've tried it against arty a couple of times and the best result was decrewing the weapon once. I've had it used against me several times. If I only have a couple of units in the circle I sometimes just ignore it if I need a territory in the circle because the likelihood that it hits anything is really small if you just have a few units. It is good against OKW if they do their version of Sim City and stack all their trucks in a small area.
I haven't played any 1v1's recently but the Armor Doctrine as a whole isn't very good in 3's or 4's. There usually isn't a lot of medium or light armor by the time the M10 hits the field and it is terrible against late game armor. Assault engineers are okay against Sturms but, like Sturms, they don't scale well into late game.
It would be a lot better if they made even just one shell hit where intended, even if they took out several shells.
|
Gunshields do protect against explosives (grenades) under certain circumstances (by applying the -50% damage reduction from green cover), which seemingly mostly has to do with the angle the grenade is fired/thrown from. Presumably this also applies to tank shell AOE (but I haven't tested it).
Tests with grenades:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/95402/okw-september-patch-discussion/post/768143
On top of that another issue with the lack of a gunshield is (I think) that the entire Raketen crew usually bunches up when the gun is around environmental cover (due to squad AI trying to move all the models into cover I guess) while regular ATG crews ignore environmental cover because they technically have their own (green) cover, and their 3rd and 4th spare models usually keep much better spacing. Raketens seem to be much more prone to one shot wipes (3-4 crew getting killed in one shot) than regular AT guns because of this.
It doesn't seem like it is getting any reduction for hits that land behind it. Some tanks like Tigers decrew USF 57mm's really quickly. The same thing would probably happen with a PAK40 and a Pershing but I haven't seen it since I mostly play 3's & 4's and few people use Pershings in those games. |
|
It would be much better if they made a couple shells land where you click. I know it's supposed to be a RNG cannon but a little less RNG would be nice. |
no they are not fine they are overpriced, cons have better scalling than volks do they cost more even if they are worse ?
Wow, just wow. |
So like penal to cons ?
if so give them penal rifle
Sounds good. Then take away the G43 upgrade and Panzershrek upgrades and give them a PTRS upgrade. Or don't compare units in a vacuum.
I'd be surprised if the balance team considers upgrading the starting performance of PF's to match Volks. They've been trying to avoid making "no-brainer" units and that would definitely make them a no-brainer. They scale better than volks and are fine as is. |
Bro lost glider is fine, even better than most. Moscow outskirts could use better symmetry, but other than that it’s fine.
Moscow Outskirts is great as long as you don't start on top. The fence that blocks sight by the left fuel makes the top's natural fuel easier to contest. The long stretch of impassible terrain at the top makes for a terrible retreat path for the player that spawns top right. If you're fighting at the center and a unit retreats, it will go almost as far right as it goes up and makes it a lot more likely to get wiped if the other team is contesting the right half of the map, which they normally do. Also, the buildings at the top make excellent Stormtrooper insertion points, with team weapons normally positioned near the buildings and infantry further south. |
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
