Most people wanted a T34/85 in the doctrine. It needs a lot of other changes. The PTAB is glacially slow to arrive (around 9 seconds) so it isn't worth it at any price. The howitzer is out of place. The camo wasn't implemented well and ends up being a net negative for SU85's if you use it. No Mark Target or Guards make it hard for Cons to do anything besides scare a medium tank.
Removing the Faust would be the obvious thing to do. Falls are still too good overall if you considering 2 CP, moderate price and insane DPS after upgrade. No reason a unit that good vs infantry should have Faust.
+1 I've really struggled against them as Soviet because none of my infantry stands up to them well and T34's or T70's often get fausted. The generous cloaking ability means they can ambush snipers it what looks to be open ground as long as there is some yellow cover from shell impacts. KV1's do much better against them but they're a lot of pop cap for something that rarely penetrates a Panther or heavy and bounces a lot against even a Brummbaer.
No this was after the patch around a year ago, there is no mention of any nerf afterwards in the patch just ctrl+f tank hunter or precision anti
I blame it on the spaghetti code as always
No, it was a ninja nerf that never made it to the patch notes. It can still take about 1/2 health of a heavy if it processes perfectly. It used to wipe infantry like crazy. The rest of the doctrine was changed and those changes made it into the patch notes but not the bombing run change. The doctrine used to have salvage which was replaced by the howitzer.
It used to wipe mediums. I don't remember if it would wipe a full health heavy but if not it would a almost full health heavy. The problem with it was probably more the speed because you had a hard time avoiding it on the edges of a map.
It needed a speed nerf because you couldn't get MG's out of buildings in time and it would take down most buildings. Instead it was nerfed into oblivion.
I'm going to make a video on this since effen wanted elchino too, and he said no. Check back later.
EDIT: Here you go!
So my take is basically, yeah they're slightly better than IL2 PTAB and precision bombing run. I'd say they're worse than M83 cluster mines and maybe could use another half second added to arrival time. M83s need the nerf first though, and really need it in the cost department. IL2 is 20 muni more and is great vs tanks as well so it is very much balanced if not slightly strong IMO. PTAB are honestly pathetic for their description and cost to power. I didn't test PTABs vs infantry, but if they're only good vs armor then they need a buff.
Thanks!
I tested it also before I saw your reply. I tested on a 2v2 map and came to a similar conclusion. I didn't use cheat mode but tested it with two computers. For the fragmentation bomb, you could avoid it in the center if you retreated on sound but not wait for the marker. On the edge of a map, even retreating on sound will cause the unit to take damage. The time to impact for fragmentation is 2-3 seconds from skill use on the edge and about an additional second in the center of a small map. Had I tested it on Steppes like Shadowlink did, it would've added another second or two. It's probably why I don't notice fragmentation a lot except when playing 2v2's. I think it needs a second or so added to the time. The difficulty in that is that would make it slow on large maps. The area is only about half the size of the cluster bombs. The damage it does on a successful hit is fine, not any different that most off-maps.
The butterfly bombs were about 8 seconds to impact. They will kill a lot more units if you don't notice, but it compensates by giving you a lot longer to dodge. I rarely get hit with those but occasionally see someone get hit at their Battlegroup HQ and lose a ton of models.
The PTAB will kill a few models but doesn't normally wipe squads or anything. I can post a replay of that if you want to see it but its over an hour. I tried it a bunch of different ways to see if there was some way that it wasn't pathetic, but after trying all different sorts of targeting, couldn't find a way that it wasn't pathetic. I tested it on Minsk pocket and was getting about 9 seconds from smoke to impact if the bombing runs went along the long axis of the map.
I noticed elchino is looking at this thread. If you have time, could you show how fast fragmentation hits versus IR pathfinder, IL2, and lastly PTAB using cheat mode?
Elite Zooks are just as good as Shrecks are they not? I am not talking about the standard ones. I complain specifically about the elite ones.
Report the guy that abused commanders.
Urban Assault is really annoying in 2v2 at the moment. The RE rifle grenade is strong. The Rangers are strong. HE Sherman with dozer upgrade is flat out OP IMO. OKW and Ost P4 can't really hurt it due to the extra HP and armor. HE shells + phosphor ability have so much firepower to hurt your infantry and raketenwerfers. Then Calliope for the late game infantry wiping. Just a complete nightmare to play against. All of this wouldnt be such a big issue if USF couldn't abuse pop cap so easily. Try beating USF with double calliope double jackson a HE dozer sherman + zooka and bar blobs roaming around with your 100 Axis pop cap. It's almost impossible unless opponent completely messes up.
Elite zooks are 100 damage versus 120 for the shrek, IIRC. I don't know what is the difference in penetration values or fire rates. They probably fire faster like Alphrum claims so the DPS could be the same or higher. I think only the paratroopers get the elite zooks but haven't played a lot of USF lately and am not sure. I've ran into the triple zook rangers a couple times and was surprised how fast they will mess up an OKW P4. That said, it doesn't really feel worse than having to deal with double shrek Panzerfusiliers as Soviet.
The rifle nade is more annoying than the rangers to me, as it is really good at denying the use of cover. The annoyance far exceeds the damage.
I posted the replay in the replay section. Not sure who to report it to.
Because PGs don't get 3 shrecks and aren't 5 man squads?
I'm not defending Urban Assault (because its BS and annoying) but I'm pretty sure that the two shrecks of the PG's do as much damage as the 3 bazookas, and are more likely to penetrate.
Even more annoying was having to play two automatch games last night against a "top 30" OKW player who had Urban Assault as one of his 3 OKW commanders. He used both Calliopes and Rangers in both matches, but couldn't buy zooks for his rangers. Rangers with Thompsons shred cons.
Maybe impossible without changing the maps or making the ability underpowered when not used in a map corner.
I'm pretty sure it hits faster than anything else, with the possible exception Pathfinder Arty. At least with Pathfinder Arty, it's tied to a range of 30-40 from the Pathfinder so you know to watch for it. Fragmentation bombing can hit anywhere. On maps like Rzhev the pathing can be so bad in spots that you can't get out of the bombing run even in the middle, particularly the right side of middle.
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