What is the point of this post OP?
The USF mortar is vastly overperforming and is being addressed next week.
A couple of points:
1)The Ost mortar should've been nerfed also.
2)I was stirring some shit. The USF mortar is really good against people that like to camp or move large groups of infantry straight at their opponent. The other team didn't do that much, or maybe at all.
3)The win rates are fairly balanced right now. They won't be after this patch. Other than bug fixes, this patch doesn't look like it will be good for allies in 2v2 and above. Your 0.780 win rate and 15 ranking won't be in any danger, but you're going to be waiting 10 minutes to get a game and the games won't last long. The allied players that do stick around are going to double down on mortar pits, Comets, and arty cover. I'm sure it's going to be great fun.
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- The USF had only slightly better stats than the Ostheer mortar. Almost everyone already knew this.
- A sample size of one is too small for a test. If you get the chance, take a statistics class. I was a history major, but I took some basic stats and math classes, and they've been very useful for work and in life. If you studied statistics in either a class, or through an online venue, or even just reading through a text book, it's hugely rewarding. The way it helps you understand the world is invaluable.
- A replay where we can see what happened in the game would be more useful for analysis than a screen shot where we don't know what happened.
- You can'take compare units in a vacuum. The USF mortar was a problem because having a mortar that good gave USF too strong a roster when combined with riflemen, which were intended to be strong even without support in early game, so giving them support as well caused problems. Riflemen are fine on USF, but would be too strong if given to Ostheer. It's fine that soviets get a reinforcing halftrack, but if you gave the same halftrack to OKW, different story.
You really think that most people on COH2 think that the USF mortar has only slightly better stats? According to the hyperbole, it is a heat-seeking nuclear missile.
I didn't claim this was a statistical analysis. However, if you can calculate the standard deviation for this data, then I'll be impressed.
PS - I had to take statistics classes in graduate school. If you ever want to bore the shit out of someone, talk statistics. History is more rewarding....... |
Thanks for posting this. I was worried the USF mortar was OP. But because of this finding, where there was a game in which the OH mortar did better than the USF mortar, I am no longer worried. Everything seems good.
No, genius. They should've nerfed both of them. The only stock mortar that didn't need a nerf was the Soviet one that doesn't kill anything anyway. |
You won't find a single top player or non biased one which would tell you that maxims A move strats aren't TOO GOOD for whatever input they require.
There's an (unfortunate) reason why maxims are mainline infantry and conscripts are supports.
I wouldn't argue that point but, at the same time, show me one of those players who uses conscripts as their main infantry throughout the game. |
Elefant is manageable with 70 range. Zook and AT guns or medium spam with smoke canisters work great.
I've argued before that JT should have more weakness for having 85 range.
This is why i'm in favour of removing clutches from no brainer/no micro units (mortar pit, party cover and JT are just examples).
Again, you don't need late game tanks when you can just put a 60s denial zone for all infantry, support weapons and heavily damage and debuff tanks.
Can't you just salvage abandon vehicles? You could also just kill an ambulance with small arm fire (easily and quickly).
The decrease in pop cap has made it easy to support the JT with PanzerFusiliers, P4, other tanks, etc. Attack ground through smoke still hits tanks so I'd be surprised if medium tanks could do much pushing against a supported JT, even with smoke. The only things that I've found to work are bazooka blobs with double Calliope to strip away the infantry support. In short, you have to get a JT badly out of position or screw up some other way really badly to lose it.
Also, for as much talk about how broken arty cover is, Stuka loiter is worse and costs less. Here is a screenshot of the remnants of 4 Shermans caught by a Stuka loiter. At least arty cover gives a long warning. It works mostly as area denial unless someone chooses to stand in it. Stuka loiter hits fast enough that some things like ambulances cannot get away and even some Shermans will get destroyed while retreating. With arty cover, you can at least back up and wait until it is gone. I've posted replays of my team beating people with up to around 8 Comets and double arty cover.
Stuka loiter is currently bugged and destroys stuff well outside the circle. I've had it drop on the center vp of Kholodny and had it loiter all the way back to my ambulance back at my base, then wipe 3 squads and the ambulance.
Here is a screenshot of the remnants of 4 Shermans caught by a Stuka loiter.
[url=  ][img=" ![]() http://i63.tinypic.com/fmnj37.jpg" alt=""] |
What are the pros and cons between the two? Additionally, how is one or the other better and in what way?
I don't play a lot of Ost so take this with a grain of salt. When I play Ost, I really struggle to win if I haven't won before the Comet train starts rolling in. It can be really frustrating because Panthers are roughly equal to Comets in AT but they aren't good against infantry. The Panther feels like a Comet with the AI nerfed but at about the same price and pop cap. Tigers aren't the answer either. OKW has none of those problems late. JP4's are pretty good, particularly when supported with Panzerfusiliers. The OKW PIV is pretty good, much better than the Ost one. The only time I don't like OKW that much is if I play a random 4v4 and start getting hit by 4 USF mortars at the 5-6 minute mark.
Another knock against Ost is the 4 man grenadier squad. They get wiped way too easily but that should get fixed in the next patch. Outside of Cons, they're probably the worst starting infantry. |
It's good for the game that the USF mortar is getting nerfed. It's really annoying, wrecks games. Here's what happened when I had one of those and picked up a spare 8 cm Ost mortar that somebody forgot.
See how badly OP it is compared to the 8 cm? I kept these two near each other for the entire game.
Oh, wait......
The USF one did get wiped once which set its veterancy bonuses back but it also was usually in the slightly more favorable position because it is supposed to be better. |
i quit playing coh2 about 8 months ago. i was just wondering if the march 28th patch is supposed to be good enough to come back to coh2.
are there still spinning tanks ?
is there still 1 sec lag from commands ?
are there still major OP/UP units ?
your thoughts please.
i really miss playing a fun RTS, and there have been zero released in the last year. I was putting all my hopes in DOW3, but after playing the beta i think i will pass on it.
I play the game regularly from a couple different locations and the lag varies mostly on where I'm located. If you had a bad connection before it won't have gotten any better.
I haven't seen spinning tanks in awhile. I still occasionally see tanks that phase through each other, but if at least one of them hits stop before they collide then they won't phase through each other.
Playing as OKW against Soviets in 1v1's isn't fun now. Penals run all over everything that you can build early.
Playing 4v4's as USF isn't a lot of fun either, unless you really like going 3 rifles, mortar into Captain every game, then throwing bazookas on them, getting double Calliope and just hoping that you're luckier with your Calliope then they are with the PanzerWerfer or Walking Stuka.
Win rates are pretty close across all factions except for Soviets OP in 1v1 and USF UP in 4v4's, and even then the rates are hugely different. |
Guards, DSHK.
Also Maxims too, until they get eventually nerfed.
I appreciate all of the work that you and the rest of the balance team have done, but, comments like this make most of us think that you're pretty biased towards axis factions.
The win rate right now is the most balanced that it has ever been. It will be interesting to see what it is after the patch. |
With how broken party cover is, absolutely. Think about it this way. How long does it take for a cache (200mp) to give that amount of munition? For 250mp + 10f you are getting medics + 200 muni, that's a great deal.
I'd agree that it is a good trade, but it comes at the expense of not one person having a good late-game tank against heavy armor, unless you really want to try to compare the Sherman to the Panther. I play a lot of USF and don't really have a lot of fun in longer games because I have no good counters to an Elefant or JT on an open map. There is a reason why people see a lot of bazooka blobs and Calliopes. I've been on both sides of that and it's not fun for either side. |
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