Man I can't stop laughing about this. They put these heavy tanks behind tech, including an Ace no less, then when they realized how stupid this was they put back behind CPs but put it behind a very low CP count.
Did they do this to any of the less powerful Allied heavies? Nope! LMFAO!
Which gang of Wehraboos runs balance now?
USF has some decent counters to this. I'm not sure that anyone who beats me with the Strategic Reserves commander wouldn't have beat me anyway. I've had close to 30 kills with an M20 when someone tried assault grens straight to Tiger Ace, then was waiting for it with two 57mm's and a Jackson. Once they lose the Tiger Ace, it's a long time before they field another decent piece of armor. Since they didn't build their Tier 3, you don't have to worry about Ostwinds which seem to be crazy good at inflicting bleed on USF right now.
The last three patches have helped balance greatly. The game feels like it is the closest to balanced that it has ever been.
If I had any complaints about Allied heavies, it would be the CP's for the Pershing and its health points. It has one of the best main guns in the game, maybe the best, but it's health pool isn't enough to make it viable in a 4v4 with the Pak walls it will face. Giving it more hit points would make it an "I win" button in 1v1's but it would be nice if they could find a way to fix it so that it is usable in larger games while not making it OP in 1v1's. |
goddamnit,
how do people come up with such things...
The assault engineer with a flamer and a zook works great against the computer in a comp stomp. Haven't tried it in a real game because real people tend not to leave vehicles in front of something that is shooting at it with a bazooka for 30 seconds or more like the computer does.
I wish there was a way to leave a game after seeing the commanders without incurring a loss. I had multiple games yesterday where someone went Advanced Emplacements and started building bofors and mortar pits on the center VP. Inevitably, Sim City burns down around the 20 minute mark and then it's all over except for the base raping.
I did have another game where a USF player built a mortar as his second or third unit. It actually turned out to be kind of fun. The other team used a big group of ass grens, panzer grens, and panzer fusiliers. It reminded me of Starcraft. The mortar spent more time on the ground abandoned than being used. In some ways, it did kind of work for the starcraft players. They got the CP's around the time that they got the fuel. Double Jacksons and a 57mm don't have a problem with a Tiger when the other side is still playing Starcraft. |
Thx for your enormous work here!
I'm surprised how even it is in the end overall. It something about 1 to 3 games won or lost more out of 100 across all five factions that makes the difference. Thats quite a small proportion for asymmetrical faction design. Looking at all the op/up forum posts and biased trolls you get the impression it has to be far worse. But it simply isn't. In fact it was far worse in the months after the release of OKW/USF and then later on Brits.
Good work of getting this game more balanced.
For as little praise as they've received, the balance team has done a great job in the last several patches. I'm not sure who they are, but the last several patches have been great. It would be interesting to see what the data looks like in a month or so when people figure out the OST meta because it doesn't seem like they should have the lowest win rates.
Thank you Siphon X, good job as usual. |
Really impressive data; this is great.
Pretty surprised about the 4v4 win-rates, though; that massive gap in the top 25% is pretty strange.
I don't think it is strange. It seems rare in the random matches that people will coordinate commanders so that they can counter certain things. I think I lose most of my 4v4 randoms as Axis due to not having a counter to howitzers. That doesn't happen to the arranged teams that I play with. Theoretically, Jaeger Armor has all of the counters you need in one commander but good luck having enough munitions to do it all by yourself. The same holds true to a slightly lesser extent with playing allies.
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Come join the coh2.org discord for your daily dose of anti riflemen propaganda.
I never see anyone on there when I play. As someone who plays a lot of USF in 2v2-4v4, I don't think there is really a problem with rifles. The only thing that unbalances the early game is the Sturmpio, which doesn't scale well into late game. It does seem like rifles shouldn't be any more expensive than volks but that is a can of worms that I wouldn't want to open. Rifles trade okay with volks if the engagement starts at short range. They're just not good at long range against either volks or pf's. That does seem odd because it seems like it should be the other way around given the weapons used.
Before the RE nerf, the easy way around the early game problem with the Sturmpio was making an extra RE or two. Now it doesn't seem like such a great idea.
An equally relevant question would be why isn't there some hate for the OKW middle game. The luchs and puma seem too easily countered in team games. LEIG's force retreats but don't kill much - even with the incendiary rounds. The double clocked raketens seem like a lot of unfun cheese (I'd much rather have a PAK40). The MG34 has great suppression but shoots marshmallows (not sure where they found the marshmallows, it's not like you can find those in Deutschland). The walking stuka is hit-or-miss and seems much better against campers than active players. Maybe all this is a L2P issue on my part but the middle game seems like a challenge. |
A bit unnecessary and aggressive response.
As stated, the usf halftrack has to have its rear facing the enemy to fire which can make it very vulnerable as even a burst of incendiary round can put it down as reararmour is non-existent.
The canon dosnt fire as well if the halftrack isn't stationery so even a 222 can dislodge the halftrack and effectively kill it without any trouble.
So no, I do not thinkt that it is a balance problem and never has been.
In my experience, it has trouble shooting down aircraft. Not sure if anyone else feels the same.
Edit: if it was clonned as the OKW halftrack , I think you will find it would be even more annoying.
The AA performance has been bad ever since they removed the dedicated AA ability. It does sound effects only. It seems like even the Sherman pintle mg is better. The M20 is much better. |
you're kidding....
I wish.....I saved the game because it was the first time I'd used and IS-2 in years and wanted to watch the replay. My teammates build order was rifle, pathfinder, mortar, mortar, ambulance - which is probably worse. I gave him too much credit for how fast he learned. He actually built five ambulances. He liked building ambulances and recrewing mortars, but didn't believe in infantry so would only have 1 pathfinder as a spotter for the mortars. I didn't notice all the ambulances because I was busy bleeding 268 models in a 1:04 hour game.
I just finished a game where one of the players on the other team kept ragging on his teammate and how the other player was worse than an easy CPU. It was a bit ironic because my teammate left and I was playing with the CPU. The player that did all the complaining did less damage than the other one. The CPU and I won which greatly increased the salt.
PS - The IS-2 seemed as good in the replay as it felt in the game. Even a noob like me managed to keep one alive with some really good RNG that went my way. |
The Vickers has decent suppression and basically identical DPS compared to the Maxim. Both HMGs are pretty much identical to the HMG 42 in terms of raw DPS. Though the Vickers could use a tiny bit more suppression. The reason the Maxim deals slightly more damage is because the suppression damage reduction on enemy squad kicks in later because it deals less suppression. If the suppression on the Vickers/Maxim were to go up, their effective DPS would go down.
In the few times that I've played brits and bought a Vickers, every time that I put it in a house across from a MG42, it (the Vickers) had to retreat. Even if the stats say that it has similar DPS to the MG42, it still doesn't seem like it.
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Not a lot of people know but Mg34 suppresses faster than the 42 by just a little.
...but it shoots marshmallow bullets. If I could've voted more than one, it would've got my second vote. I voted Vickers just because of the way that I use them, in support of infantry to minimize manpower bleed. The Vickers has terrible suppression and just okay damage, at least the maxim kills stuff. The death loop, narrow firing arc, and lack of suppression are annoying but somewhat manageable. Yes, it does suppress slightly faster than the MG42, but out of all the MG's, I buy the MG34 the least. |
I just remembered the Soviet 120mm mortar. I literally forgot it even existed. Haven´t seen one in months. How does the balance team think about Soviet 120mm mortar and Pak Howi performance in comparison? Balanced? These two units are pretty similiar in role and cost. Difference being the Soviet 120mm being doctrinal.
The 120 usually kills fewer models than any of the cheaper mortars. It's marginally better than regular mortars for killing OKW trucks, but never really is worth it. In the unlikely event that someone is facing a lot of OST mortars, it might be worth it to prevent manpower bleed as it can safely target OST mortars and force them to retreat, but other than that is never worth getting. It was over-nerfed but I think that so many people were so tired of it for so long that nobody really lamented its passing.
It would have been nice if they just eliminated auto-targeting from all indirect, and just had an attack ground and/or barrage, plus the special abilities like some. |
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