Don't bother with him. 120mm is well know for its shitness. The only advantage is range, nothing more.
He's just rage posting without any numbers so... Who cares
120mm is also well known for it's squad wiping. |
so you say, but i truly doubt you are capable of reading past the first page of my commenting history.
i do my best to not spam threads with the same point and i also try to not post every negative thought if it has already been echoed. according to you, that's not a contribution.
I'm sure my 71 posts have done far less damage than your 600 or soo posts of drivel.
Do your best to elaborate your points with stats and replays and maybe we could have a productive discussion on these forums.
Your posts are pretty evenly split between pro-ally posts and flaming axis players. |
There is only front and rear armour in CoH2. Division line is in the middle.
Statistically speaking, that would mean that side armour is a thing. because you have a 50% chance at getting a pen bonus if you have the opponents side armour.
Ie.
Panther (armour 320 r 110) vs T-34 (140 pen)
43% chance to penetrate frontal armour.
71.5% ((140/110).5+(140/320).5) chance to penetrate side armour.
100% chance to penetrate rear armour.
|
Yes I found the same thing in my tests. The spreading out of damage from the StG44. The StG squads did more health damage it seemed, but the Kar volks killed more models. Perhaps Kar98 has more chances of sniping than an StG? Or perhaps like you suggest it moves targets too much?
Either way it's definitely not as clear cut as saying its an upgrade at all ranges.
The Kar98 was at least 4 kills ahead of the Stg until the Stg recieved Vet 4. At Vet 4 the Stg overtook the Kar98 in kills. When the Kar98 recieved Vet 4 it caught up and surpassed the Stg in kills again. |
Could you provide some evidence of this "spreading" effect happening? I am pretty sure that once an infantry model has acquired a target, it will not switch to a different target until the damn target is dead (or unreachable).
My methodology is all about eliminating noise from your measurements.
If you want to compare the DPS of two weapons, you don't just spawn two squadfuls of them (with mixed weapons even). Just spawn one weapon of each kind and let them do their job. The idea behind spawning 30 Riflemen models is that this will help even out the effects of RNG.
If you disagree with this methodology, what methodology would you use to compare two weapons?
The only issue in the assumption is vet. as the single model does damage it increases in vet. This could possibly skew the results.
I'm already a few minutes into the testing. 30 Rifle squads each against 1 model of volk. One with an StG and one without, both attack moved into their 30 rifle squads.
The scenario is matching my predictions. 12 kills vs 8 kills so far, but the StG has done more damage and therefore has more vet. |
It -might- be that Kar98 Volks have equal-ish DPS to MP44 at extreme-max range. I don't know about it yet.
However, keep in mind that all squad engagements are extremely RNG-dependent. It all depends on how your models acquire targets at the initial part of the engagement
- If your models focus fire on a particular enemy model, and the enemy models spread their DPS over yours, you're golden.
- If it's the other way, you're gardened, and this is going to snowball
If you want to take a more statistical rule, keep in mind the following thing:
- Try to spawn 1-member squads, to avoid target-acquisition RNG
- If you use cheatmod, use the 'Superman' buff to make your damage-dealers invulnerable
- 10 samples is 0 samples
Just like in real life, you need at least 30 samples for each case to even consider claiming that you have a case :3
In fact, the best way to settle this:
- Spawn 1 invulnerable Volks model
- Spawn 30 riflemen squads at the same range
- Go out for a coffee
- Post results when you return
I've spoke about this already. It's because the StG damage per bullet gets spread across the models more evenly than the higher damage per bullet kar98.
Your methodology doesn't make sense, but I'll humour you. |
Will you also compare the effort needed to kill one and the other?
I can. What methodoligy do you think would be best?
I wouldn't mind a decrease in the majors price, if when he died you lost T4. Just like when you try to calipilize on OKW truck mechanic and end up over extending yourself. |
It is in line with its performance IMO.
Continuing with previous post - T-34-85 needs to flank Panther in order to consistently penetrate it's armor. Otherwise Panther will win.
To prevent flanking you need to make only one shot at T-34-85 and then have grens arount to faust it.
There you go - now you can just take it down from long range.
Even if you don't faust it you force T-34-85 to disengage.
Asking for Panther buff while providing example where Panther got Buttoned by Guards and flanked by T-34-85 is just pathetic. No offence.
What people around here need to stop doing is taking units out of factions' context and comparing with each other, especially units with different roles.
There are two downsides I see in Panther:
- Its AI isn't bursty enough to wipe infantry (but still quite good).
- High opportunity costs (T4 is still quite expensive, but that is a bonus tier for Wehrmacht).
I play mostly 4v4 matches where Panther do damn fine and is easily accesible due to sheer amount of resources , so maybe my perception is flawed with game mode preference. But I should say that I rarely go Panther if I need AT and I never build more than one. I prefer StuG for that role. I feel that StuG is more effective almost in all situations.
But then I should point out that you, probably, have your share of bias too.
You just like German combat vehicles, which, as my observation tell me, is not uncommon for Canadinas.
You have that Panther avatar, your youtube account have Hetzer avatar and german nickname.
Let's be honest - you want Panther buffed also because it is one of your favourite WWII tanks, not purely because you think that it would be better for the Game and for everyone.
Damn. I wanted to write two sentences, but you've triggered me.
The pictures were added to my account as I posted the videos. The "nickname" is my real name. Yes I like tanks, as I'm sure every other player does.
I play 1v1 and 2v2. so...
I'm trying to say that the panther costs to much for what it does expessially compared to it's counterparts. You even agreed with me in your post. |
tanks cost significantly higher than infantry. There are more infantry target, but they are worth significantly less.
In addition, experience is determined by damage dealt. A bounce mean either zero experience or some hefty penalty. the high penetration gun on the panther allow it to earn more experience off more expensive tank.
what kind of german player is going to just sit there while a t-34/85 is hammering at his rear/side?
the panther is one of the fastest tank in the game. If the soviet player spent the effort to flank the panther then the german should spend the effort to move.
How often is a medium tank going to be 1v1? The point of the demostration is to show that the panther isn't exaclty worth it's price. For almost the exact same price as a P4 the T34-85 will win 1v1 +90% of the time but against the panther vs frontal armour it will bring the panther consistently below 40% health and the panther costs signifigantly more. And if the T34/85 gets the panthers side armour it will win roughly half the time ( 4/10 + 3/5).
A panthers AI is so weak it will lose consistently to rifles with double zooks if they're in green cover. |
Cool story bro. Shame isn't true.
there's front half and rear half of a vehicle/tank. enemy shooting at your "side" is bad because the shot can potentially land at your rear half but it's not a guarantee.
Exellent. In that case my last test with okw panthers and T34-85 produced a result of 4/10 t34/85s winning against panther side armour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bw78P7tiVc
So, is the panther under powered or over priced. It's one or the other. |