Thread: Pak 439 Jul 2016, 07:42 AM
My concern is that the ability of pak 43 being able to fire from behind buildings does not fit any coherence of logic. The 18-pounder cannot do this. Also it being behind buildings covers it from artillery, which should be its counter. The 18-pdr can brace, but is susceptible to artillery nonetheless.
The logic is balance. Others have stated the reason.
The 17-pounder has self spotting by virtue of flares, can be garrisoned, can brace, is non-doctrinal, and has bofors + mortars to work together.
And it's not like the PaK43 being able to shoot through some (not all) game geometry is far compensation either, because it's not. If it's placed behind a bunker or an OKW truck, it will damage that instead of the intended target. So even the shoot through buildings thing is sometimes a liability.
It only really shines in maps like Ettelbruck, where heavy urban settings means it works way better than 17-pounder in comparison. But then again, UKF can just mortar pit spam instead. |
|
My panzergrenadiers once spotted a tank. They went to cover, then fired their panzerchrecks.
Rocket explodes the stone wall, one-shotting my squad.
Another is Centaur killing like 12 of my guys in a house within seconds. My teammate commented that was complete BS. |
The two health bar is not that complex if the current UI is changed. It just like protoss in starcraft, you have barrier bar and health bar.
I wasn't talking about UI, I was talking about how they would work as a mechanic and in gameplay.
The idea of resting them at base would only work for at least three run, which is rarely. Moreover, if we change healing from number to percentage, KT crew would restore as fast as a Sherman crew.
I don't know what "three run" means, so I'll just assume you still think it's a good idea. Again, leaving units at base when you have no way for them to heal faster is a bad idea, especially when it's tacked onto the necessity of repairing vehicles, which require micromanagement. If you want healing for crews, you just implement a way for them to benefit from medics or healing auras. THAT requires micromanagement, as well as using existing game mechanics (every faction has some form of healing). |
|
Love the ideas, but I also think it's a bit complicated. Maybe not too complicated, but given the game in its current form (and how Relic works), it's obviously just a pipe dream.
Currently it seems Relic wants abandons and criticals to be a factor once vehicles are very low in health. It works for now, at least you don't get REALLY random shit like engine damage at 75% health, but it's still obviously an RNG factor.
The idea of two health bars is an interesting one, but it's too complicated in the sense that Relic just needs to implement a way for USF vehicle crews to sustain damage when crewing vehicles (and also apply said mechanic to other factions), which accomplishes the same thing that you describe.
There is the problem that certain factions, commanders and overall unit designs mean that some factions have greater access to things like AP whereas others have HE type of weapons. This idea would have to have been added and designed from the ground up into the game, not simply tacked on, because you'd then have to design ALL units to properly inflict the proper amount of respective damage types to vehicles.
Healing crews is a good idea, but requiring you to leave them at base is a very bad one. This just means that HE rounds will severely debilitate a player's ability to fight, because your full health KT needs to sit at base for the crew to relax while massive upkeep and popcap prevents you from using other units to do the work. Why bother using Jacksons when spamming Sherman HE rounds will abandon KTs, or at least force OKW to never use them? You'd just promote a gameplay where people spam light vehicles, or better yet, back to Volksspam.
And knowing Relic, explosives being the HE side of things means we get wonky results like hand grenades abandoning Tigers. Let's face it, that's going to happen, I mean we still have things like Combined Arms exploit, veterancy issues with units, mortars performing way more powerful than intended, etc.
|
|
Chaffee has the firepower of the Sherman, in fact the same gun. You're asking for T3 firepower to come earlier, and move faster, and cost less. Stuart is also not meant to be compared with the Puma so directly, given it's neither meant to be a scout vehicle nor long range AT.
Hellcat replacing M10 when the issue is CP timing is a bit like wanting the dealer to replace your car with another car because you didn't feel like washing it. If you think M10 comes too late, then maybe you should ask for CP to be lowered? |
|
I don't agree with OP; nearly half tie I am using the M36, I would have gladly traded it for using an SU-85. |
|
I recall that prior to the change of KT being call-in (it was a T0 unit), the HQ trucks were designed along that line. For those that don't remember, you needed all three trucks up, and KT had to be built in T0, which meant no more churning out Volks squads.
I can't help but feel that since Relic made KT call-in instead, the meta regarding the HQ trucks was left unchanged.
I don't think they need to be though, HQ trucks aren't exactly bulwark artillery sponges, and losing them means medic/ mechanics/ area denial, but also means to produce units. Losing T4 and opting to just go KT means you need to carry the rest of the game with Pumas and/ or infantry: ignoring T4 means no medium armour. At worst that's a viable alternative with it's own set of disadvantages. That sounds like quite a gap for the opponent to build up AT as well as seize control of the map in the meantime.
And that's just fuel; you can (and I have been reliably) drain the OKW player of manpower, of which it needs more but will have less available. There isn't much point carrying the game with infantry if you end up with 300 fuel but 100 manpower.
Also, it's clear that Relic wanted the KT to be basically a non-doctrinal call-in, and a call-in by definition is something that costs lots of resources but doesn't require buildings. T-34/85 and Easy Eight for their part are safe in HQ territory and aren't heavy tanks.
If we're going to make KT rely entirely on HQ trucks not being destroyed then the only acceptable change is to considerably buff their durability. No one's going to risk trucks near the front if their only non-doc call-in relies entirely on them still standing. They're not exactly durable against even T0 infantry attack. |
|
Quick though on the subject: with Rapid Conscription and Relief Infantry, replace their spawn mechanism with the effects of OKW's Recoup Losses? Or even just replace them with Irregulars/ Osttruppen call-ins? |
i think each unit has a similar equivalent to the opponent's side. All? No. British emplacement haven´t. There are no nearly equivalents.
That is intended design. Case closed. |
|
Opponents have a very easy time negating OKW's heavy tank if all they need to do is constantly destroy any single OKW truck. Losing an HQ truck is already a big loss since they are sources of unit production as well as field benefits like healing and repairs. You don't just get a free KT once you get all three trucks up, you know, you still got to juggle saving 230 fuel for later as opposed to Puma or Panzer 4 now...or still later, depending on how the match is played out.
If you manage to save 230 fuel for KT and also manage to hold off the enemy without adequate armour, then you deserve a KT. It's not exactly a fast or scouting unit.
People already prefer to just leave the trucks in HQ sectors which was not the original intended design. Absolutely no one will every risk bringing their trucks out to the field if losing one means you cannot even deploy KT, ever.
As for other call-ins requiring tech, you're trading the ability to field stock units now for the mere chance to call in Tiger much later. If your opponent manages to bring out Pershing despite having invested ZERO fuel into anything, then you're hardly a good player. Relic would also have to go back to the drawing board and reconsider what doctrinal units fit what tier. Should Opel trucks and Mortar Halftrack be T2? The CP unlock alone restricts when doctrinal units can be used. |
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
