Posts: 884
mini isu 152 non doctrinal. ultimate manpower killer. bangs atguns all inf. shoots over shit easily. squad wipes and makes units have to retreat within seconds of encounter and still penetrates most allies tank like butter. and trying to dodge those shots are laughable unless your reversing already far. its to potent
Posts: 783
BUT BUT BUT the Churchill is too good against AT guns!
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
The churchill is a separate issue and yes it was too good against AT guns.
That said, the brummbar could definitely stand to have the penetration of its main gun reduced. Something like 90/60/30 (roughly similar to ISU) would be alright. I don't see why the brummbar should be able to offer the kind of support it's currently capable of against mediums. And even with reduced penetration, it still would have the deflection damage maintaining some consistent dps albeit reduced against tanks.
Posts: 2260 | Subs: 1
Posts: 307
It is strange that a non-doc heavy tank which excels at killing infantry has better penertration stats than a t-34-76. Is it intended? I mean, doctrinal 105 Sherman has only 35 pen.
Posts: 3106 | Subs: 2
If your tanks get killed by a brummbar you need to L2P this game.
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
That is a bad argument.
In a tank battle where it's sometimes just better to sit and exchange blows, a Brummbär should not be able to keep your medium moving and force reduced accuracy that way.
But the more realistic scenario is that a Brummbär could engage snared mediums and pen with at least 2/3 chance.
Posts: 3106 | Subs: 2
I do not see the problem of allied stock mediums have a not so tough time vs Brumbar when PzIV is lose to Churchill and Kv-2 even if it manages to flank them.
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Could you please rephrase it because I'm not sure what you mean. Also I don't see what P4, KV2 and Churchill have to do in this discussion since they are completely different units with different purpose.
Posts: 3106 | Subs: 2
Brumbar is an heavy assault gun and it server a similar purpose with infatry support tanks(like Churchill/KV-1). It spear heads attacks vs fortified positions.
PzIV will a much harder time dealing with Kv-1 and Churchill than 34/76,Sherman,Cromwell has to deal with Brumbar while in worse cost ratio.
If one want to deal with a brumbar one can simply build a SU-85/M36 or a FF and snipe from the safety of 25 more range.
So I do not really the problem in allied stock mediums being a soft counter to Brumbar.
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Alright, then we assume very different roles for the Brummbär.
I see it as OSTs specialized anti infantry vehicle for the late game (as opposed to the AT specialized Panther), meant to burst down enemy key units (mostly AT gun or MG) in a few shots before withdrawing. I don't think that it's sturdy enough to keep fighting. The Brummbär has enough durability to frontally charge the enemy and get a couple of shots off, but that's it. KV-1 and Churchill are meant to soak damage and shield the real damage dealers in the backline while dealing damage more over time to infantry and medium tanks.
I don't think that the comparison to a P4/KV-1 matchup is fair, since KV-1 is an allrounder. Brummbär is definetely an AI vehicle.
Posts: 65
Any more nerf and the units will simply not be cost efficient. People will simply built wefer instead.
Posts: 1794
Posts: 1794
I bet that if brummbar main gun penertration nerfed to 90/60/30 and cost of fuel decreased by 5 there will be even more people building it. Afer all it is still very effective vs inf. and weapon teams.
Posts: 65
I think brumbar can be more effective against allies blob. Right now i enjoy using ostwind more. Brumbar rng aoe and slowness make it more susceptible to 60 td.
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
You should try holding fire and use attack ground instead of auto fire, it can be really rewarding. Need a lot micro though.
That kind of nerf is acceptable because no one gets a brummbar to fight mediums. Brummbar is performing the same role as soviet kv8, it doesn't need to have some penertration like this. Now it has good chance taking down snared mediums and that seems confusing to me.
I do think after they nerfed the range and armour of brummbar, it should at least have 960 hp like panther. But no better penertration than t-34, the deflection damage is enough to let grens to snare the flanking medium.
Posts: 65
Kv-8 actually has an AT gun and gun beat a PzIV:
KV-8
....
-45mm penetration from 50/50/50 to 140/80/60
-45mm AOE from 2.5 to 0.5
-45mm AOE distance from 0.625/0.9375/1.25 to 0.15/0.2/0.25
Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8
This gun...no it won't damage p4 unless they run into each other... it is effective against lights but not a panzer 4...
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
This gun...no it won't damage p4 unless they run into each other... it is effective against lights but not a panzer 4...
Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8
That is an inaccurate claim
Problem is PzIV can damage KV-8 either
Chance of penetration
PzIV vs KV 8 42%
KV-8 vs PzIV 33%
less than 10% more chances to penetrate.
given that KV-8 has 960 vs 640 the KV-8 can beat the PzIV even at max range. You can actually test is cheat MOD.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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