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Anybody playing Luftwaffe Ground Forces?

6 Aug 2019, 06:09 AM
#41
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


IMO they should have stormtrooper RA though. They aren't quite storms or commandos with their inferior camo (which is justified because FG42s have way better damage profiles at range than suppressed stens or mp40s) and they are fairly expensive, 4 man squads that are supposed to be elite infantry. Yes, you should be using camo, but all the stuff I said holds true. Stormtrooper RA is apparently just slightly better btw.

I still think they are a great unit with great combat and utility capabilities though.


Again, not needed, they are not CQC unit.

Grens don't have same RA as PGs for that very same reason.
6 Aug 2019, 06:36 AM
#42
avatar of Smiling Tiger

Posts: 207


I really enjoy using the commander; all the muni abilities it has are excellent and synergize really well with aggressive infantry play, which is already OKW's thing anyway. I even really like falls but I do agree that they could use a slight RA buff, but keep in mind 380 is still a bargain considering they get camo and 4 FG42s straight out the gate. Keep in mind that paras cost 360 and have to use munitions to upgrade to fairly expensive slot weapons, and they don't get camo or snares either.


My thinking was that the 20 manpower would be a tradeoff for no RA buff.

@Katitof They may not be a full on CQC unit, but the primary use of their camo is to either close the distance or let enemy infantry walk up to them for better damage.
6 Aug 2019, 06:44 AM
#43
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


@Katitof They may not be a full on CQC unit, but the primary use of their camo is to either close the distance or let enemy infantry walk up to them for better damage.

That's because they are THE squad to exploit relative positioning.

CQC squad in range? Open at max.
Tommies move in? Wait and gut them from close range.

You're not supposed to be tanky with them, you're supposed to pick fights and always have an advantage if used correctly.
6 Aug 2019, 07:32 AM
#44
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

That's because they are THE squad to exploit relative positioning.


The problem is why would you ever pick them over IR STG44 Obers or LMG 34 Obers who are way more effective at their respective ranges? Why bother yourself with having to micromanage camo and ambushes when Obers can just mow down everything much more effectively? Falls do not stand out enough compared to them.
6 Aug 2019, 07:37 AM
#45
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



The problem is why would you ever pick them over IR STG44 Obers or LMG 34 Obers who are way more effective at their respective ranges? Why bother yourself with having to micromanage camo and ambushes when Obers can just mow down everything much more effectively? Falls do not stand out enough compared to them.

That I can agree to.
6 Aug 2019, 07:51 AM
#46
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

Falls have their shiny times when the enemy underestimate them or hasnt seen them (drop behind enemy lines) ..but sadly you will lose them to often when u retreat them with 2 or even 3 models left. It seems they have less retreat defense like other squads on retreat...they drop like flys
6 Aug 2019, 11:33 AM
#47
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1



The problem is why would you ever pick them over IR STG44 Obers or LMG 34 Obers who are way more effective at their respective ranges? Why bother yourself with having to micromanage camo and ambushes when Obers can just mow down everything much more effectively? Falls do not stand out enough compared to them.

Pretty simple - nerf obers
6 Aug 2019, 12:22 PM
#48
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

LOL , I knew this was coming
6 Aug 2019, 19:02 PM
#49
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Again, not needed, they are not CQC unit.

Grens don't have same RA as PGs for that very same reason.

They're a 3CP elite squad that costs 380 manpower and is 4 men. Sure, they aren't cqc units but they don't get stormtrooper or commando camo (and btw, stormtroopers and commandos don't have super excellent RA because they get great camo and have to use that instead), and if you compare them to similarly tiered squads, even specifically long range-focused ones like lmg paras or guards, falls are significantly less durable since they are only 4 men and don't have super outstanding RA. Lmg paras and guards both have 2 extra men and when they lose models, they don't lose as much DPS since it's mostly concentrated in slot weapons. Falls could stand to get a slight RA buff, and like I said before, stormtrooper RA is only marginally better than what they have now because stormtroopers aren't like rangers or anything.


My thinking was that the 20 manpower would be a tradeoff for no RA buff.

@Katitof They may not be a full on CQC unit, but the primary use of their camo is to either close the distance or let enemy infantry walk up to them for better damage.

380mp is still excellent value for a manpower-only squad that also paradrops and comes with excellent weaponry already though. By comparison infiltration commandos cost 440mp when you factor in reinforcing 2 more models at 35mp a piece lol.


The problem is why would you ever pick them over IR STG44 Obers or LMG 34 Obers who are way more effective at their respective ranges? Why bother yourself with having to micromanage camo and ambushes when Obers can just mow down everything much more effectively? Falls do not stand out enough compared to them.

+1

They do have the advantages of coming earlier and being a fair bit cheaper to reinforce, and they do have fausts as well. That all makes them a bit easier to work into games IMO and a small RA buff would make them a more attractive option.

I know it's not exactly meta but I've been playing with this doctrine a lot and it's been pretty fun.
6 Aug 2019, 19:31 PM
#50
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

From 3 v 3 + perspective, many players have a tendency of blobbing Falls almost every time. The problem is that large game modes people completely use this unit as a main line infantry.

Falls should be played like commando unit like the Brits.

Also, I do think the clumping of falls is the biggest downfall. The unit is absolutely pain in the ass for unit preservation. If we need to do 5 man squad then DPS needs to be nerfed or FG-42 needs to be an upgrade.
6 Aug 2019, 20:55 PM
#51
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

From 3 v 3 + perspective, many players have a tendency of blobbing Falls almost every time. The problem is that large game modes people completely use this unit as a main line infantry.

Falls should be played like commando unit like the Brits.

Also, I do think the clumping of falls is the biggest downfall. The unit is absolutely pain in the ass for unit preservation. If we need to do 5 man squad then DPS needs to be nerfed or FG-42 needs to be an upgrade.


5 Man with A.Gren. MP-40s
Stormtrooper RA
440 MP
x5 FG-42 (Which will have similar DPS total as the current one maybe a tiny bit more) for 120 munitions

With x5 FG-42's DPS drop-off will not be that much drastical.
While 5th man and Stormtrooper RA will solve survivability issues without making it ridicilously OP.
MP-40s will prevent paradrop rapes unlike current FG-42s.
And lastly with upgrade and unit that expensive it will be punishing to spam/blob.

Seems fair imo.

6 Aug 2019, 21:55 PM
#52
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 214

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2019, 20:55 PMJilet


5 Man with A.Gren. MP-40s
Stormtrooper RA
440 MP
x5 FG-42 (Which will have similar DPS total as the current one maybe a tiny bit more) for 120 munitions

With x5 FG-42's DPS drop-off will not be that much drastical.
While 5th man and Stormtrooper RA will solve survivability issues without making it ridicilously OP.
MP-40s will prevent paradrop rapes unlike current FG-42s.
And lastly with upgrade and unit that expensive it will be punishing to spam/blob.

Seems fair imo.



pls no.

3cp
5 Man with k98k
Stromtrooper RA
450 MP
1x FG42 for 60 mun (max. 2x FG42 Unit) a bit better than BAR or a bit worse than OberMG
3 Weapon slots
Faust @vet0
bobytrap @vet0
Blend @vet1
cammo @vet2
selfheal @vet3
RA,dmg, acc buff @vet4
reinforce in the field via paradrop @vet5


there u have ur "elite" Unit wich not getting insta wipe by any nade.
The main problem with currant Fallis is the dps drop via model, in combo with the 4man splash/nade/ insta wipe.

1. 1cp smokeplane 30 mun
2. 2cp fortifications + forward HQ like SU
3. 3cp Fallis 450 mp
4. 8cp Close air stuka (from Ost)120
5. 12cp 50 kg Stuka (from ost)

- maybe a paradrop pak or mortar ...
7 Aug 2019, 07:37 AM
#53
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556



3cp
5 Man with k98k -- This weapon really doesn't fit the paratrooper theme while they were not jumping with kar98s before fg42s.

1x FG42 for 60 mun (max. 2x FG42 Unit) a bit better than BAR or a bit worse than OberMG -- If they change the FG-42 damage profile well i'm okay with that. (What i was telling is x5 FG42s BUT same damage output in total. It will be satisfiying to see FG42s and my version will loose their DPS faster while not being totally garbage)

3 Weapon slots -- I think that would be overkill and will be like Thanos having his ring with the 3rd weapon they found.

reinforce in the field via paradrop @vet5 -- no god pls no :D

7 Aug 2019, 09:26 AM
#54
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 214

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Aug 2019, 07:37 AMJilet


hmm than maybe jump with mp40 and u can buy 2x FG42 and 3 K98k for long and med range.

5 Man with better FG42 behind enemy lines is too strong. Its like paradrop shockso_O

I dont like 5x FG42, because than they are just 5 Man Pgrens with better slighty better weapons.
And u have a dps drop of... even with 5 Man. The Main Firepower must come from the 2 FG42.
Than they got the same durability as the standart rifles + bar.

Why not the vet5 drop ?

the 3rd weapon slot would make them more flexible.
7 Aug 2019, 10:31 AM
#55
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

Or just focus their dps for 2 models , which could solve damage decreasing when taking losses. I personally feel its pointless. Imo falls are good as they are.
7 Aug 2019, 10:57 AM
#56
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556



hmm than maybe jump with mp40 and u can buy 2x FG42 and 3 K98k for long and med range.

5 Man with better FG42 behind enemy lines is too strong. Its like paradrop shockso_O



Well it gives a significant clue on the minimap and as i say 5 FG42s will have roughly the same DPS with current x4.



I dont like 5x FG42, because than they are just 5 Man Pgrens with better slighty better weapons.


If we look that way then shock troops are armored panzergrens commandos are camouflaged panzergrens etc. :D


And u have a dps drop of... even with 5 Man. The Main Firepower must come from the 2 FG42.
Than they got the same durability as the standart rifles + bar.


With stormtrooper RA (which is slightly better than falls) model drops will be less than current glass bois.

And if we make a chart of DPS drop each model

DPS COMPARED TO 1 MORE MAN

5 man with FG42s as I suggest vs current fals

1st loss -- %20 %25
2nd loss -- %25 %33
3rd loss -- %33 %50
4th loss -- %50 %100
5th loss -- %100 ****

So my suggestion also offers falls a little less drop with each model while letting them survive some cheesy grenade moments.



the 3rd weapon slot would make them more flexible.


Imagine a 2 man FG42 + 2 kar98s (as you say) which has roughly the same DPS as the current one AND with a panzerschreck and remember the G43 + Pschreck fusiliers. :D
7 Aug 2019, 19:08 PM
#57
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Or we can have the Falls with similar ability as Penals. I cant remember if it was a damage buff as the models die or received accuracy buff?
7 Aug 2019, 19:54 PM
#58
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Or we can have the Falls with similar ability as Penals. I cant remember if it was a damage buff as the models die or received accuracy buff?

Its both and its very tiny amount.
8 Aug 2019, 01:20 AM
#59
avatar of aomsinzana

Posts: 284 | Subs: 1

Plz no ...
We have enough A-move units for okw !!!

IMO Falls is fine, this doctrine really need Ostwind.
8 Aug 2019, 06:53 AM
#60
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2

Agreed on the ostwind, Falls are fine as is.
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