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So are they really nerfing the Churchill Tank?

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14 Jul 2019, 22:16 PM
#41
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 884


While I agree that the Cromwell is actually not that bad (from what I felt ingame it lacks a bit in the AI departement compared to the P4s, but I don't have much hard data on that, you seem to have more), the pen on the Cromwell and P4s is mostly the same. Especially if you keep in mind that the P4s and Axis tanks in general usually have more armor. So P4 has about 75% pen chance (slightly depending on range of course) against cromwell, while it's approximately 66% the other way around. Rest of the stats is absolutely comparable.


The Cromwell is a terrible tank and I'm actually not even sure what useful purpose it serves besides countering Pumas. It costs as much as a Sherman but is worse in every way, Bad AI bad AT.
14 Jul 2019, 22:31 PM
#42
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

get it from here https://coh2db.com/stats/#107 and use the channel log for changes
14 Jul 2019, 22:33 PM
#43
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2019, 22:16 PMCODGUY


The Cromwell is a terrible tank and I'm actually not even sure what useful purpose it serves besides countering Pumas. It costs as much as a Sherman but is worse in every way, Bad AI bad AT.
it has more pen than Sherman tho, as always u are just babbling, at least use ur original account AAA or is it still banned
14 Jul 2019, 22:51 PM
#44
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2019, 22:16 PMCODGUY


The Cromwell is a terrible tank and I'm actually not even sure what useful purpose it serves besides countering Pumas. It costs as much as a Sherman but is worse in every way, Bad AI bad AT.


It's main advantage is that it's not slow like a churchill or pointless like a Comet.

I don't mind the cromwell but the Sherman is the best medium by far.
14 Jul 2019, 23:49 PM
#45
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

The sherman is a really awkward comparison to make because, honestly, for its price point, it is vastly better as a general medium tank.

The extra pen and potential flank speed on the cromwell is nice when you end up with mediums trying to battle panthers or TDs, but the raw, unmitigated firepower or sherman HE shells and the versatility of their smoke makes them basically the best medium going most of the time.

You don't use mediums to fight panthers, generally speaking. You use them to fight infantry 95% of the time and bring in heavy AT for the bigger cats. And for that purpose specifically, the Sherman is the undisputed king.

The cromwell has its strengths flanking elephants, circling KTs etc. But most games, most mediums are there to slug with mediums and murder infantry.
15 Jul 2019, 01:26 AM
#46
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307

2 stugs keep churchill at bay easy...use the range of stugs and don't try to kill the tank..kill the infantry
okw..i don't know sorry :D JP4 i guess
P4 sucks against churchil, don't bother.
15 Jul 2019, 07:06 AM
#47
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2019, 22:16 PMCODGUY


The Cromwell is a terrible tank and I'm actually not even sure what useful purpose it serves besides countering Pumas. It costs as much as a Sherman but is worse in every way, Bad AI bad AT.

I'm sure you have the data of thr Cromwell's 'horrible' stats to back up your claims.
15 Jul 2019, 18:07 PM
#48
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

It's less that the Cromwell is bad (it's not great but it does its job) and more that the Sherman is incredible.

It's like a Cromwell and Centaur fused together.
15 Jul 2019, 18:10 PM
#49
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232

Removing the Churchill's smoke is a must . There is really no excuse for a unit with so much HP to have a smoke ability and to actually be destroyed at all must solely rely on attack ground .
15 Jul 2019, 18:13 PM
#50
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Removing the Churchill's smoke is a must . There is really no excuse for a unit with so much HP to have a smoke ability and to actually be destroyed at all must solely rely on attack ground .


Well I keep getting corrected that the health is the only thing this tank has going for it :)
15 Jul 2019, 18:34 PM
#51
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

Removing the Churchill's smoke is a must . There is really no excuse for a unit with so much HP to have a smoke ability and to actually be destroyed at all must solely rely on attack ground .

Honest question:
How often is the ability used and how quickly does it cover a retreating Churchill?

At least at my rank, I never saw a Brit player use this smoke, so I don't know. I used it sometimes, but I'm not sure if this was really what made my Churchill survive.
The ability was actually meant as a offensive ability to cover assaulting infantry, it also makes the tank even slower and enables more shots for the enemy, even if these are only ground shots.
15 Jul 2019, 19:22 PM
#52
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Comes out fast, I personally use it vs mg to makes infantry come in suppressed or to run away as it comes out very fast and last long
Someone ballsy even use it on reverse to avoid at gun fire
15 Jul 2019, 21:33 PM
#53
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

Comes out fast, I personally use it vs mg to makes infantry come in suppressed or to run away as it comes out very fast and last long
Someone ballsy even use it on reverse to avoid at gun fire

Honestly on retreat is the only way I ever used it. Mainly because I forget that it exists when I attack. I just use it as a panic button when I've already given up on my Churchill
15 Jul 2019, 21:56 PM
#54
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

I mean. With shermans, panzer tactitian, lights getting smoke left right and centre... Basically everything and its dog has smoke now, it's just in different shapes and sizes.
15 Jul 2019, 21:58 PM
#55
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

I mean. With shermans, panzer tactitian, lights getting smoke left right and centre... Basically everything and its dog has smoke now, it's just in different shapes and sizes.
u mean any allied vehicle :foreveralone: panzer tactician does not allow smoke on anything for osther unless u pick the dock
15 Jul 2019, 22:06 PM
#56
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

u mean any allied vehicle :foreveralone: panzer tactician does not allow smoke on anything for osther unless u pick the dock

Then I guess its good that its in meta doctrines?
Also *laughs in smokeless soviets*
15 Jul 2019, 23:01 PM
#57
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2019, 22:06 PMKatitof

Then I guess its good that its in meta doctrines?
Also *laughs in smokeless soviets*
well i just replied to him saying everything has smoke, as always east faction get the shaft :foreveralone:
16 Jul 2019, 18:46 PM
#58
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jul 2019, 22:32 PMAlphrum


axis dont have access to 60 range high damage/pen tank destroyers, which is why they struggle vs Churchill's


JgPanzer 4 - Range 60
Pak 40 - Range 60
Elephant - Range 60 (80 in Hulldown)
JgTiger - ? 60 or more

Etc, Etc
16 Jul 2019, 19:18 PM
#59
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3



JgPanzer 4 - Range 60 <- Not high pen like Alphrum implies (170 far, same as Stug)
Pak 40 - Range 60 <- Not a tank destroyer fyi.
Elephant - Range 60 (80 in Hulldown) <- 70 range actually, try to get that in 1v1.
JgTiger - ? 60 or more <- 80 range actually, try to get that in 1v1.

Etc, Etc <- Ran out of things to list. :snfBarton:


Sorry, had to make this reply out of obligation.

On topic: Churchill is not a problem, it's the only "good" stock tank of UKF. You could make a case for the Crocodile though, we will see after the heavy tech lock + Tommy nerf patch. Against Churchills: just get enough AT guns and Stugs/JP4's to keep it at bay and avoid chasing it (it's a trap!) It doesn't have that strong of a gun so probably won't do too much damage.
16 Jul 2019, 19:38 PM
#60
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

again with this meme, every ukf tank is good from stock, the centaur rapes infantry and LV, the ff has 200 damage 60 range and moving turret, Cromwell is a better Sherman without AI related ammo and moving accuracy, the comet is a mini tiger but it could use a vet 1 reload buff (and check if the main gun has a projectile), it already has very good pen and armor(both almost tiger lvl with only 10 less armor and 30 less pen at all ranges), 45 range and 800 hp, and obv almost as fast as the Cromwell (to the people who feel that the AI is alcking, it's just that the damage is shifted more to the mid range but has less one shoot potential ex.: the tiger does only 26 damage at mid range AOE while the comet does 64, both cromwell and churchil are similar, sacrificing one shoots for more consistant damage)
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